Birthers vs. the facts: Birthers lose

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سوق المرأة مستعمل فلل للبيع ارض للبيع سوق فله للبيع شقه للبيع تأشيره للبيع تأشيرات للبيع فيز للبيع مخططات لكزس كامري سياره للبيع سيارات للبيع فورد كورولا جيب لوحه مميزه لوحات مميزه للبيع رقم مميز رقم مميز للبيع ارقام مميزه لوحه للبيع ارقام للبيع جوالات للبيع جوال للبيع نوكيا سوا الرقم الخاص رقم شحن رقم عام ارقام شحن ارقام عامه عطور مكياج ادوات تجميل مجوهرات العاب الزوجيه كمبيوتر للبيع لاب توب للبيع موقع للبيع ايميل للبيع محمول للبيع مودم للبيع كونكت للبيع وظيفه وظائف توظيف فرص وظيفيه

I guess they are very tight with the reserves. Funds may come in shortage. They must be wise enough to spend it.
mail in gold

1898 SCOTUS decision United States v. Wong Kim Ark

Gray, in writing for the majority: "The right of citizenship never descends in the legal sense, either by the common law or under the common naturalization acts. It is incident to birth in the country, or it is given personally by statute. The child of an alien, if born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle."

That is what Gray wrote, what he did NOT write is: "The child of an alien, if born in the country, is as much a NATURAL BORN citizen as the natural born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle."

To be constitutionally eligible for POTUS, it doesn't matter WHERE you are born, only that you are NATURAL born. Having a parent with British citizenship forever removes the opportunity to be considered NATURAL BORN in this country, at least according to the SCOTUS.

BHO is a citizen of the US without question. The operative question is whether or not he fulfills the requirements to hold the office of president as spelled out in the constitution. Having a parent who is loyal to the British crown is exactly the situation that the constitution plainly seeks to avoid.

Here are the facts: BHO is a US citizen. BHO's father was a British subject, SCOTUS made the distinction between citizen and Natural Born citizen, and hence BHO does not meet constitutional requirements. All we need to know to make an educated determination is what is written in the constitution, what is written in case law by the supreme court, and what we know about BHO's father.

Since when is it considered political in nature to follow the constitution using SCOTUS case law for interpretation? This has nothing to do with Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, conservatives, independants, or liberals. Follow the rule of law for crying out loud.

There is no doubt that Barack Obama is a US citizen because he was born in Hawaii. Those who claim otherwise without proof do a disservice to our country. And the media who fan the flames of this conspiracy theory are complicit. However, those who assume that being a US citizen from birth equals being a natural born citizen do a disservice, too. The latter is not a conspiracy, but a question of constitutional law. And the media who ignore this issue are derelict.

The Constitution does not define natural born citizen. There is much evidence that being a natural born citizen requires two US citizen parents.

For the first time ever, the US knowingly elected a president who was born after 1787 and whose parents were not both US citizens at the time of birth. (For the exception, see Chester Arthur.) Isn't this unique situation worthy of the discussion as to whether or not this satisfies the requirement that the president be natural born?

There is no US law that designates anyone as a natural born citizen. From time to time the Supreme Court has designated an individual as a natural born citizen, but it has never done so for anyone who did not have two US citizen parents.

The 14th Amendment was adopted in 1868. The 14th Amendment describes circumstances under which a person would be considered a citizen.

Subsequently, the Supreme Court decided Minor v. Happerset in 1874. In this case, the Court said that the Constitution does not say in words who would be a natural born citizen. This includes the 14th Amendment. Therefore, the 14th Amendment does not designate anyone to be a natural born citizen, either directly or indirectly.

Later, in United States v. Wong Kim Ark 1898, the Court said that Wong Kim Ark was just as much a citizen as the natural born children of a citizen. But Wong Kim Ark was not a natural born citizen. The Wong Kim Ark case is the Holy Grail for Obama defenders, but it is a fig leaf of legitimacy.

What does the Constitution intend by "natural born citizen?" This question will not be answered by public opinion, an election, the Electoral College, the Congress, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, or by me. This uncertainty can be resolved only by a Supreme Court opinion or by a constitutional amendment.

Was George Washington a natural born citizen? Why did Chester Arthur go to great lengths to successfully cover up the fact that he was born before his father was naturalized as a US citizen?

Again, this is question of law, not of the birth certificate. Barack Obama is without doubt a US citizen, and he has been one from the moment of his birth in Hawaii. Is this the only requirement to be a natural born citizen? There is much evidence that says no.

As a left-leaning libertarian, I was a fan of MSNBC. But after listening to the hysterical ad hominen attacks of Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow and Chris Matthews for the past couple weeks, that has changed. "crazy, tinfoil hats, right-wing nuts, right-wing racists, etc." One thing I know for sure--when name calling is the primary attack methodology, you know they've got a problem, a big, big problem. Curious that an absurd conspiracy theory with no validity would garner so much of their air time, eh? Every day? Just wait till people finally begin to understand that Hawaii, up until the '70s, handed out certificates to anyone, from anywhere, who simply said they were born there, then the game changes. Barry, your number's up. Thanks for the Constitutional crisis.

I’m not sure this story ever had in value other than comedy value. Interestingly Republicans apparently are beginning to realize they are the butt of the joke because they were slow to denounce the birthers. Republicans (the 95% or so who understand Obama was born in the USA) seem to be seeking cover in two ways. There are those who are saying “nothing to see here, keep moving, this story shouldn’t be covered.” Then there are the ones who say “Obama must be hiding something.”

Hr2454tax falls into this second category. Inadvertently, Hr has demonstrating why it would be useless to show any documentation by providing a list of things that would eventually be asked for—probably not even an exhaustive list. This is followed by rank speculation—Hr is “pretty sure it will become very obvious that he told some real whoppers - LIES - about his life in those books and in his 'public' information.” I suppose for people who don’t like Obama, speculation is enough. No matter how many documents are released some people will cling to the idea that Obama must be hiding something.

Then Apop joins in with facts—and damn funny ones, too. Facts? Facts? Apop you are smart enough to know that facts have no place in this discussion. Indeed, the “hiding something” crowd is relying almost entirely on the absence of facts. I suspect you are just stirring the pot and waiting to hear further rationalization supported by different “facts.” I will say nothing to dissuade you in this endeavor.

was born in Kenya.

However, I do believe that, for someone who wrote two autobiographies prior to even being elected to the US Senate, he is very reluctant to produce any documents that support his 'history'.

Historians love documentation. They want to see actual long form birth certificates. They want to see kindergarten enrollemnt documentation. They want to see passports. They want to see grade school, middle school, and high school enrollment and grade documents. In particular they love to see college enrollment documentation, documentation of grades, documentation and actual copies of a thesis, articles written for law reviews. They want to see documentation of marriages, actual birth certificates for any children, and baptismal records. They want to see employment records, documentation on where people lived, and where they traveled and when. They want to see documentation of his actions and notes and everything he did in the IL Senate. Historians LOVE documentation of every kind, they live to dig through those documents and examine every detail.

For a man who makes so much of the historical nature of his life (face it, I'm suprised MSNBC didn't want to advertise and record the historical event of the first black President's first trip to the men's room as President) and his Presidency, Obama is quite reluctant to produce ANY of the documents that relate to his history prior to his inauguration. THAT is just outright WEIRD. I'm sure in time the documents will be made public, it may not be in our lifetimes, or his. In the end I'm pretty sure it will become very obvious that he told some real whoppers - LIES - about his life in those books and in his 'public' information. Otherwise why bother to go to the trouble to hide all that documentation? He's really very arrogantly proud of the 'historical' nature of his presidency, almost as much so as MSNBC and the other media. Why deny historians the opportunity to examine the facts of that history?

Attorney files motion for authentication of alleged 1960s certificate from Africa.

WASHINGTON – California attorney Orly Taitz, who has filed a number of lawsuits demanding proof of Barack Obama's eligibility to serve as president, has released a copy of what purports to be a Kenyan certification of birth and has filed a new motion in U.S. District Court for its authentication.

The document lists Obama's parents as Barack Obama II and Stanley Ann Obama, formerly Stanley Ann Dunham, the birth date as Aug. 4, 1961, and the hospital of birth as Coast General Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya.

No doctor is listed. But the alleged certificate bears the signature of the deputy registrar of Coast Province, Joshua Simon Couya. It was allegedly issued as a certified copy of the original in February 1964.

wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105764

Birthers should beg, borrow, and steal every cent they can lay their hands on, and take it to Las Vegas. There, they can find a bookie who will gladly take their bet that President Obama is not a "..natural born Citizen..", and therefore "..not eligible to the Office of President;" They can then prove their case in court, and become instant multi-millionaires, while the rest of us can only envy their sheer perspicacity.

Including me.

Seriously.

Wiki "Who is a natural-born citizen?" The question is incredibly more messed-up than you or I or the cop in the woodpile realized.

The US government does not recognize dual citizenship. Naturalized citizens are required to forgo all alliegence to any foreign power or government as part of the citizenship oath.

Natural born citizens in the US are those who are born inside the borders of the US to any citizen or any legal resident. Natural born citizenship is also recognize for any child of active duty military born overseas while on active duty and the children of any member of the US Diplomatic Corp stationed overseas when their children are born. Natural born citizens also include anyone born in a US Territory that becomes a State after the persons birth.

I have no doubt that Mr. Obama is natural born citizen. As I understand it, the President's mother was married to a Kenyan but I have never heard the she met him in Kenya or was ever herself in Kenya.

The author probably believes that the Downing Street Memo is real, which requires more imagination than the birther thing.

'You could hand them in person the original birth certificate with the placenta and have a video of Obama emerging from the womb with Don Ho singing in the background and they still would not believe it. Hey birthers, wanna hear my theory? Obama was born in America and you were born with the umbilical cord around your neck. I don't know what his mother was doing when she was pregnant but I'm pretty sure yours was drinking.

Actually there is one thing that makes me think they could be right, We're Americans. Of course we're going to hire an illegal alien to clean up.'

of the o I have to say I have ignored most of this, and wish I had not read the post before this one. My understanding of the law in the US regarding dual citizenship is that it is not recognized. Thus if you have a US citizenship, that is all that the US recognizes, you are a citizen.

The best way to move forward is to simply expose the constant mis-steps and statements of the dem crew and to highlight the foolish policies. This discussion takes away form the real threat the the o and the dems represent to the long term of this country.

Obama has already proven his natural born status far beyond what any prior President has been required to do. But it's not good enough. We could invent a time machine, send them all back to personally witness his birth as a big neon sign reading "Honolulu" flashed outside the delivery room window and they wouldn't accept it.

Good. All of this only benefits Obama. He doesn't have to say a word. The birthers do it for him. What they say to the world is that those who oppose him are nutjobs and lunatics. Is that true in all cases? Obviously not, but they sure help to create that appearance.

Before the advent of the birthers I thought 911 truthers were the stupidest people on Earth. But truthers are mental giants compared to birthers.

Go birthers! Go!

The only thing weirder than the Birthers are the anti-Birthers, who blame the Birthers for being conspiracy theorists yet actively feed the conspiracy by refusing to call for President Obama to release his birth certificate.

The state official in Hawaii who manages such things has reiterated that there is indeed an original birth certificate on file which would confirm President Obama’s having been born in Hawaii and that she has seen it, but state law won’t allow her to release it unless the president authorizes it.

So what’s the problem here? Release the original and let’s be done with this madness

Hearing half the right getting worked up about Obama’s place of birth and the other half (ok, well maybe 95%) of the right get frustrated by the birthers is great theater. It won’t last not-stop till the elections, but it will probably rear its little head now and then.

You see how they keep changing the goalposts. For a while, birthers claimed Obama was really born in Kenya. Now that it's been repeated enough times that he was born in Hawaii, and there's simply no doubt about it, they're switching gears to the "presidents must be born of two US citizen parents" lie which has absolutely no basis in fact. They just make stuff up. They also bring up wanting to see his school records, which have nothing to do with proving country of citizenship. They will never be satisfied.

All these claims were made before Election Day 2008. The secret Muslim rumors, the Kenyan rumors, the Indonesian rumors. The not-vetted-enough claims. Guess what? Obama was elected anyway. America wanted him as president, more than people like birthers who didn't want him. The birthers are basically crying "do-over" because they cannot fathom that Obama is president. Well, there aren't do-overs - America made its choice in November 2008. You had your chance, birthers, and your arguments weren't convincing enough in 2008 - now you'd best just get used to having President Barack Obama as president for the next 4 (at least) years.

British born Obama does not qualify as constitutional "Natural Born Citizen"

Abouhalkah's red herring misses the core constitutional issue.

The heart of Obama’s eligibility issue is whether a President Elect with dual nationality can constitutionally qualify as a “Natural Born Citizen” or whether the Founders intended this qualification to exclude ALL foreign influence in the President compared to “Citizen” for Senator. Furthermore, US Constitution Amendment XX provides for “if the President elect shall have failed to qualify.”

The strict difference between constitutional qualifications of “Natural Born Citizen” for President over “Citizen” for Senator is that the President must be born of two US citizens and be born within US jurisdiction to exclude all foreign influence. Birth within US jurisdiction is essential BUT INSUFFICIENT!

Barack Obama Sr. was an alien Kenyan student from the British East African Protectorate of Zanzibar without permanent US domicile. Barack Obama (I) was NEVER a US citizen but a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies.

Consequently, Barack H. Obama (II) acknowledged he had British citizenship at birth by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That automatically disqualified Obama from becoming President. He also became an Indonesian citizen by adoption to Lolo Soetoro.

As President Elect, Obama failed to provide any evidence that he had qualified. He failed to provide evidence that both his parents were US citizens. Registrars in Hawaii and Kenya both claim to have Obama’s birth certificate. Hawaii grants certificates of birth to any person claiming that such a birth occurred. Furthermore Hawaii even grants birth certificates to children born outside of Hawaii if the parents declared Hawaii as their legal residence within the year previous to the child's birth.

Obama failed to provide any original birth certificate or associated evidence sufficient to distinguish between these differing public claims of his birth.

Following is evidence of this intent from the Constitutional Convention and drafters of the 14th Amendment.
First US Chief Justice John Jay recommended to Constitutional Convention President George Washington:
“Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check on the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the commander in chief of the American army shall not be given to, nor devolve on any but a natural born citizen.” (Jay emphasized “born”).
Washington acknowledged and the Convention changed “citizen” to “natural born citizen” without debate.

In “The Law of Nations”, (1758) Emmerich de Vattel gave the ONLY definition of “natural born citizen” as combining both parents’ allegiance (jus sanguinis) with birthplace(jus soli):
"The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. . . to be of the country, it is necessary to be born of a person who is a citizen, for if he be born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country. . ."

Alexander Hamilton explained:
“ . .every practicable obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and corruption. These most deadly adversaries of republican government . . . [come] chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils.” To protect the President’s election from foreign powers: “. . . raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy . . the convention have guarded against all danger of this sort, . . .”

Delegate Senator Charles Pinckney summarized the Electoral College and Presidential qualifications:
“It was intended to give your President the command of your forces, . . . . . to make it impossible for the different States to know who the Electors are for, or for improper domestic, or, what is of much more consequence, foreign influence and gold to interfere; that by doing this the President would really hold his office independent of the Legislature; . . . This therefore they have guarded against, and to insure experience and attachment to the country, they have determined that no man who is not a natural born citizen, or citizen at the adoption of the Constitution, of fourteen years residence, and thirty-five years of age, shall be eligible.... ”

Rep. John A. Bingham, Union Army Judge Advocate and drafter of the 14th Amendment said:
“[I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen”.

Senator Lyman Trumbull, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, inserted “subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof” into Amendment XIV, explaining:
“That means 'subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.' What do we mean by 'complete jurisdiction thereof?' Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.”

The Right Side of Life has posted all the Elegibility Lawsuits at Eligibility Lawsuits
See also the web site of Orly Taitz Esq

The foundational issue is whether or not we uphold the Rule of Law and the Constitution. Once we begin to ignore it, we soon will have no protections against tyranny. In the 20th century, 33 Democracies descended into tyranny by failing to preserve their constitutional protections. e.g. Germany to Hitler, Russia to Lenin and Stalin, China to Mao Tse Tung etc.

Obama's posting the "Certification of Live Birth" is a specific diversion to focus attention away from the critical issues of:

The British citizenship disqualifies him per John Jay's letter.
The Kenyan and Indonesian citizenship each breach the spirit of the Founders' intent in prescribing "Natural Born Citizen".

Other issues Obama probably wishes to hide:
4) His original Hawaiian Birth Certificate was NOT likely signed by a medical witnesses, raising questions as to its validity.

5) He has multiple Hawaiian Birth Certificates from each of his mother's marriage, divorce, and remarriage.

Abouhalkah's is a poster child for "journalism lite" and exposes his foundational ignorance of the Constitution.

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago...."

This only exposes Dr. Fukino's ignorance of the Constitution, since no Hawaiian birth certificate states the mother's or father's citizenship - both must be US citizens to grant Natural Born Citizenship.

Fukino gave no evidence as to whether Obama's certificate was signed by an attending doctor or midwife, or was granted on a relative's declaration, or by a third party, or what corroborating evidence was recorded etc.

Stating Obama (I) was "African" is a clue he was never a US citizen, and instead gave Obama (II) British citizenship at birth, disqualifying him from the Presidency.

Obama has never demonstrated he has NO FOREIGN INFLUENCE -
Obama cannot show both his parents were US citizens.
Therefore Obama directs attention to the "Certification of Live Birth" to distract attention from his British citizenship that disqualifies him.

My former wife was close friends with Barack Obama's mother during high school. After graduation Stanley Ann moved to Hawaii. A couple of years later she returned for a visit, along with a mulatto baby, named Barry. No, she had not been to Africa. Neither had Barry.

Look, this entire story is COMPLETELY ABSURD. It is kept alive by those who cannot accept that they have a legally qualified, duly elected black (well, half-black) president.

Repeating facts to conspiracy theorists never works. They NEED their fake narratives far more than they care about the truth. In this case their racism fuels their delusions. Pathetic, really.

Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. Simple as that. You birthers can't seem to stand a little thing called "The Truth", so you come up with this pathetic nonsense.

Ok, let's say everything is just fine and dandy with his paperwork, so why won't he just show the long form.

It's no longer a matter of his eligibility, it's a matter of hiw trustworthiness.

Read why... http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/can-obama-be-trusted/

The certification of Live Birth is merely a printout of whatever is in the system. It proves NOTHING. Ever heard of GIGO?. If Dan Rather could produce a forged document in 60 minutes, altering computer records is a breeze. Produce the passport records for Ann, produce hospital records of birth. That is where the proof is. NOT IN A PRINOUT from some state health dept. Get the FBI involved.

It is soooo simple.
Submit the original certificate for inspection.
End of controversy.