By Yael T. Abouhalkah, Kansas City Star Editorial Board
Could the climate-change bill of 2009 be deja vu for the Democratic Party, bringing back memories of the debacle of the BTU tax of 1993?
The Democratic Party better hope not. It lost power in Congress at least partly because of the tax.
I wrote about the tax early in the first term of President Bill Clinton in 1993. He alienated Republicans and many Americans by trumpeting the merits of the new energy tax.
The measure was worth supporting because it had the potential to make sweeping changes in how Americans used energy. In short, it was aimed at reducing energy consumption by Americans and harmful emissions by the power industry.
The U.S. House narrowly passed it, but it died in the Senate.
The New York Times has a timely story resurrecting what happened to the tax.
The article examines Democratic-led House passage of the climate bill pushed by Democratic President Barack Obama early in his first term and how it might lead to similar outcomes in Congress after the 2010 elections.
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Another Punishment for D's...
Canada's great socialized medicine in practice...
I suspect our elected officials will have this option no doubt...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/30/canada-sees-boom-private-health-care-business/?test=latestnews
kind of off topic, grunt
but you do realize that no one's proposing socialized medicine here in the states, don't you? It's offering an affordable insurance plan so the 46 million uninsured folks in this country can get covered that's being discussed.
Poor flop...
keeps pushing the 46M number which inclueds 10-15M illegal aliens who have no RIGHT to health insurance, millions in between jobs, millions more who qualify for Medicaid but are too stupid to signup and millions of young who choose not to have health insurance...
You and your other lib pals can ruin our healthcare system and change it to long waits and denied care, with resulting earlier deaths, and feel you have "covered" all these poor souls...
less then 17 months until sanity returns
Ya, right
I keep hearing that. Don't belive it for a second but I keep hearing it.
You know for $1 trillion over the next 10 years we could just buy those "46 million" insurance for less. But that's really not the idea now, is it.
Fewer pirates, more warming
We need more pirates!
Bad Idea
The problem with this bill is that the Chinese, with their coal-burning power plants and factories and home heating, are a bigger problem than we are, yet are exempt from numerical limitation under Kyoto because they are (were) a developing country at the time the Protocol was developed. The Protocol is now overcome by events, leaving a loophole big enough to drive a truck through. Until the loophole is closed, it does little good for the U.S. to cut its own CO2 emissions at the cost of American business. We already can't compete with the Chinese without shooting ourselves in the foot as well. This bill could be a good idea once the Chinese agree to serious limits. Until then, there are more pressing matters for the Obama administration to work on.
I agree Faceless -
But green is the color, and the only money-green involved is if the Chinese Yuan notes have any green ink in them.
.
But most of the lemming-liberals on this blog don't want to think about your points. Obama will somehow take care of them.
Certainty Is Inversely Proportional to Actual Understanding.
One of the things I’ve learned in my month long (more or less) foray into the blogosphere is that certainty is almost directly inversely proportional to actual understanding.
Thank you for illustrating the point.
Australia Says NO to Global Warming...
Realizing the economic impact for following this junk science, Australia has said no to ruining their country.
Less than 17 months until sanity returns.... Luckily, the libs are making it easier too.. thanks
CLEWLUS
I must confess I don’t get too stoked up about climate change. I do believe that humans are having an affect on the climate; but I haven’t seen anything approaching the political will to do anything about it. I’ll be dead before it gets too bad, and I’m afraid that I have the attitude that everyone exists pretty much for my amusement (and you’re doing a fine job). If humans cease to exist after I’m gone I won’t even know.
A couple of observations:
It doesn’t surprise me that Congressmen have not read this bill or that; I doubt that many people have ever read their own insurance policy or most other legal documents. Through their staff Congressmen know what it says. John Boehner said today that this bill was the greatest job killer in history—how do you suppose he knows that if he hasn’t even read it?
Way back in the list of comments hr2454tax said “the purpose of this bill is to raise revenue and to allow the legislative branch new abilities to control the lives of everyone who lives in the United States.” Do you realize if we actually had a bill called “Control the Lives of Everyone Who Lives in the United States” that the acronym would be CLEWLUS?
heh
amusing
First of all...
There is no evidence that this bill will alter the climate in any way. That is not the purpose of the bill. The purpose is to raise revenue in the form of taxes so that the progressives in Congress and Obama can continue their plans to turn the United States into a Socialist nation where every aspect of our lives is controlled by the government.
In addition, there is no scientific proof that man made global warming exists. CONSENSUS IS NOT SCIENTIFIC PROOF. There is considerable scientific proof that the slight warming that occurred in the 1990's was the result of increased Sun spot activity. There is additional scientific proof that the current levels of Sun spot activity are very low and are actually causing the Earth to cool.
There have been periods of time where the Earth has been significantly warmer, and significantly cooler than it is now. The Midieval Warm Period was significantly warmer than it is now, and the Little Ice Age was significantly cooler. There is no evidence that the exact temperatures we have now are the optimum, or that it is possible for humans to prevent the temperature of the
Earth from going thru perfectly normal cycles of change.
Much of the rest of the world is admitting that man made global warming is not real, and that any minor temperature changes are part of normal cycles, it borders on insanity to insist on wasting trillions of dollars in this way. To do so in the middle of a recession, will likely push the country and possibly the world into a depression. This bill won't create jobs, it will cause millions of jobs to be lost as companies are taxed out of business or move their businesses overseas.
Why worry about money and the politics!
All the damm money in the World isn't going to mean much if we blow this climate change thing and don't get it right. The cost of doing nothing maybe our very lives in the long run.
If we spend the money and solve the problem. We are just out the money.
If we spend the money and there was or is no real problem. We are just out the money.
If we don't do anything and there really is a problem. It will cost us much more in the long run.
Think about it!
OK, Chicken Little
If we spend the money and solve the problem. We are just out the money.
If we spend the money and there was or is no real problem. We are just out the money.
If we don't do anything and there really is a problem. It will cost us much more in the long run.
Think about it!
Calm down and think about it.
OK Chicken Little
This bill is a high tax, for profit of a few select companies benefits at the expense of American citizens.
It does nothing - I repeat nothing for the environment.
It actually will INCREASE GREENHOUSE gases as USA companies taxes will skyrocket and they will send more business overseas - where emissions are higher.
It's loser law.
somehow I doubt that "citizen4honor"
has even attempted to read this bill that he's squawking about.
Nope I have not - but then I'm not an elected official
I don't need to read the whole bill to know it's a loser.
Anything that gives our Federal Gov't more control over states and you and me is not a good bill and reduces freedom.
Anything that adds tax is not a good bill.
Anything that will hurt our economy, burden our manufactuers is not a good bill.
Anything voted on pure emotion and not data is not a good bill.
Anything that says it will create green jobs that does not also say but eliminates current jobs is not a good bill.
And neither has
the people who voted for it and Interface just loves them.
At the time of the vote...
NO ONE, had read the bill in full. No member of the house, no staff member or group of staff members, absolutely NO ONE had read the bill. At the time of the vote the combined text of the bill and the 300 page ammendment added at around 3 am on Friday morning DID NOT EXIST. Portions of the text of the 300 page ammendment contained language such as : delete line x of paragraph y, on page nnnn, or other directions that added, deleted, and changed substantive parts of the bill. Voting on the bill without this being done and allowing members of the house and their staffs to read it was IRRESPONSIBLE in the extreme.
To say that this doesn't matter is ridiclous. OF COURSE IT MATTERS. This is a bill, that if passed by the Senate and signed by the President will become LAW.
If the final text is not important, then why the huge rush to push this bill through before any member of the House, or their staff members, could read it in full? This is not a bill that is dealing with something that cannot wait such as action taken in response to a terrorist act on US soil, or authorizing funds to deal with the aftermath of a natural disaster.
The purpose of this bill is to raise revenue and to allow the legislative branch new abilities to control the lives of everyone who lives in the United States. Those who say that this is not a tax, and is not to raise revenue are wrong. If the increased costs to individuals are what the progressives in Congress and the President say they are there would be no need for language in the bill providing for tax credits for anyone who currently receives any kind of federal income assistance. Those tax credits are based on a complicated formula that has nothing to do with the acutal amount of additional money that person has had to spend on energy or anything else. If the increase is really $175 a year for a family of four or less, those new welfare benefits would not be needed.
Again, I encourage everyone to start calling and writing their Senators TODAY to tell them to vote against this bill and any other bill that seeks to enact carbon trading of any kind nto law.
Ah someone who gets it
Thanks for getting what's going on in Congress.
Hyperbole?
This bill is a disaster.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/EnergyandEnvironment/wm2503.cfm
Where the heck is that crystal ball?
Those who try to predict the future, better have a nice, new, shiny, crystal ball with a return guarantee. The track record for futurists, especially over the past few years, has been abysmal. They use past performance complete with charts, graphs and computer projections, to predict what will happen. These patterns have proved to be wrong, as witness the stock market, real estate, finance, as well as foreign affairs. Expert economic predictors, such as Warren Buffet, are often thought to be smart and darn lucky, until they are neither.
Medicine men often used dried bones and animal entrails to predict the future, instead of fancy charts, but it's still just the same old guessing game.
Federal Control - Enough
This bill will tax everyone of us between $200 and $4000/year. It was passed - again with NO ONE READING the bill.
And worst of all it will INCREASE GREENHOUSE EMISSIONS!!!!
As jobs move from the USA because in a global economy if the big producers - namely China and India DO NOT agree to the same punitive standards for their companies - then USA companies prices will be higher and USA companies will be forced to send manufacturing overseas.
As a result - GREENHOUSE GASES WILL INCREASE since China, India are the worst polluters in the world and our air quality will decrease.
I think we have all forgotten why this country has been so great - limited Federal Gov't and that is what our founding fathers framed for us.
This law puts the control of ALL USA Energy in the hands of our FEDERAL gov't and overpowers states.
It will also recreate corruption by the nature of it and derivative trading with clear winners and losers.
Most of all we the people are the losers. Big investors, Al Gore and others prepped for this trading will become billionaires.
I personally don't care anymore if DEM or GOP loses.
I am the one who is losing. My family is losing. Our country is losing.
Federal control of everything - means no freedom for anyone.
This is a really stupid argument
No one in Congress reads bills before they vote on them. It's impossible when bills are normally near 1000 pages long.
But the hand wringing is unwarranted. Every member of Congress has a staff and their job is to READ BILLS. I can't count the number of times I have had a discussion with an elected representative and have been told he/she would have a staff member get back to me on a particular question. They have assigned topics to certain staff members. They each then become the resident expert on that topic.
There is no shame in hiring staff to help understand, explain and even write legislation. If you brainiacs who keep bringing up this "THEY DIDN'T EVEN READ THE BILL!' talking point had any idea of how Congress operates you wouldn't make this stupid argument.
Here's another shocker for the unknowing: you know those emails and letters you get from elected officials in response to your emails, letters and phone calls? Staff members write those too.
Congressmen have staffers to read for them?
It isn't the staffers who are voting on the bills.
LOL and the staffers don't report back to their employers?
It isn't the staffers who are voting on the bills.
Try again. Why do you think representatives hire a staff?
OK
It isn't the staffers who are voting on the bills.
Try again. Why do you think representatives hire a staff?
The next time you buy a house I'll read the paperwork for you. You just sign on the dotted line. Don't worry.
Foolish things like that got us here. I don't vote for staffers. I vote for the representitive. I fully expect them to read and understand what he/she/it is voting on.
Good luck with that plan
It isn't the staffers who are voting on the bills.
Try again. Why do you think representatives hire a staff?
The next time you buy a house I'll read the paperwork for you. You just sign on the dotted line. Don't worry.
Foolish things like that got us here. I don't vote for staffers. I vote for the representitive. I fully expect them to read and understand what he/she/it is voting on.
To expect one person to read a 1000 page bill is incredibly unrealistic. This is just one more reason most elected officials have staffs to help them govern.
Your home buying analogy would work it you were my employee and it was your job to read the contract.
Sadly, you are wrong again.
My representitive IS MY EMPLOYEE and it IS HIS JOB TO READ THE "CONTRACT".
Not a stupid reply
Bill wasn't prepared in time just like stimulus to allow them to review it before vote.
Pelosi runs the shows. If she says we have to vote - you have to vote - whether or not there is time to review the bill.
It's the way Pelosi runs that is the problem.
What happened to promised transparency - 48 hours to review and published so you and I can review it? Remember that pledge?
Did you get to review the bill?
I actually talked with my Congress Rep in PERSON on Saturday. They are very frustrated with the games being played.
They were not given time to read the bill. Period. Not DEM or GOP.
No one read it.
It should be a law that every bill is read in full before anyone votes on it.
Obviously YOU do not understand how Washington works.
Lemme take a wild guess - your Congress rep is a Republican
Pelosi runs the shows. If she says we have to vote - you have to vote - whether or not there is time to review the bill.
It's the way Pelosi runs that is the problem.
What happened to promised transparency - 48 hours to review and published so you and I can review it? Remember that pledge?
Did you get to review the bill?
I actually talked with my Congress Rep in PERSON on Saturday. They are very frustrated with the games being played.
They were not given time to read the bill. Period. Not DEM or GOP.
No one read it.
It should be a law that every bill is read in full before anyone votes on it.
Obviously YOU do not understand how Washington works.
Of course the Republicans are frustrated. They aren't the majority party anymore. Now the Democrats are playing some of the same games the GOP played when they were the majority.
Yes I understand perfectly how Congress works.
I also talked to Democratic reps who assured me their staff had indeed read the bill and the middle of the night amendment. So it was indeed made available.
But from day one in 2007, the republicans in Congress have made it clear they have no intention of cooperating with the Democratic majority. They have ramped up this plan since Obama took office. Last week, they even voted AGAINST funding the war they so warmly embraced for 6+ years. Remember all their talking points about supporting our troops? Well they ignored all of that and voted to stop paying the soldiers fighting in the middle east. Yet there is no outrage from the right over that. Hmm.
You can ignore this partisan nonsense all you want. But that is how Congress works. It's not about what the bills say, it's about which party is supporting them.
There still isn't a copy of the completed bill
Pelosi runs the shows. If she says we have to vote - you have to vote - whether or not there is time to review the bill.
It's the way Pelosi runs that is the problem.
What happened to promised transparency - 48 hours to review and published so you and I can review it? Remember that pledge?
Did you get to review the bill?
I actually talked with my Congress Rep in PERSON on Saturday. They are very frustrated with the games being played.
They were not given time to read the bill. Period. Not DEM or GOP.
No one read it.
It should be a law that every bill is read in full before anyone votes on it.
Obviously YOU do not understand how Washington works.
As of right now, there still is no copy of the completed bill available on the House website for review by the public. The original 1092 page document is there, but not a copy with the 300 page ammendment combined with the original document.
Who would know?
If they do publish it will we, they, or anyone really know if the published version is actually the version that was voted on?