By Yael T. Abouhalkah, Kansas City Star Editorial Page columnist
Pastor Rick Warren's invocation today was not controversial, which means it was just right for Barack Obama's inauguration.
Warren called for "civility when differing," a gentle reminder that anti-gay people like Warren and his followers need to be more accepting of gay people.
Warren also said Americans are "so grateful to live in this land."
And he correctly mentioned the incredible historical event with the swearing in of the nation's first black president.
"We know today that Dr. King and a great crowd of witnesses are shouting in heaven," Warren said.
He added: "We are united not by race or religion or blood, but to our commitment to freedom and justice to all."
That's true, and it would be good for Warren and others of his ilk to remember that "justice to all" part in the future.
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justice to all
Yael as a believer in Christ I do believe we should not push our beliefs or values on any one. We should in fact win them over by loving them and creating relationships with them. In remembering "justice to all" I think your referring to legalizing marriage in the gay community. As a Christian I do believe that marriage is a covenant between one women and one man before God. I think we can maybe resolve this issue by redefining gay couples as a "UNION" and not "MARRIAGE". Possibly congress could rewrite laws to recognize this as a legal partnership. Just a thought... anyways how can you expect some who doesn't know God to know His values which are our values as Christians!
As a Christian
I believe that religious marriage is a covenant between a loving couple in the eyes of God, given as a blessing by the church. Many churches do not share indiana7's narrow definition of who can receive that covenant.
As an American, I understand that civil marriage is wholly distinct from religious marriage, and, unlike the latter, it is a contractual relationship deliniating certain rights and responsibilities between a couple. It has nothing to do with the religious sacrament of marriage. Insofar as it is a legal construct, it should be readily available to all Americans of marrying age. Discrimination against same-sex couples is antithetical to basic American legal values.
Marriage
Interface, who defined marriage, man or God? If man then your definition is correct but if God then scripture clearly states that it is between a man and a women. You're saying there is a distinction, I'm agreeing. So let's get congress to rewrite the laws. You said that marriage is a covenant between a loving couple. Could you show me scripture reference for your argument for same sex relations? Homosexuality is an "abomination" to God! -Lev.18:22, 1 Kings 14:22, Rom.1:24,26. If defined by God how could He allow same sex marriage? It is not in His character. I am not angry towards you interface I'm just saying marriage is a sacred covenant.
Rick Warren did hit the mark
Careful Jenks as a practicing Christian we should not judge what God is doing in some ones life, you could be in danger of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Rick Warren is a Godly man and you should respect him as a brother in Christ.
Spontaneous generation magic
Computer code like DNA just pops out of non-existent primordial soup.
Yeah sure.
A big hand comes out of the sky
And out pops the entire universe.
Yeah sure.
Justice for All
Not quite sure I read that in your post at the end....a persons view on religous beliefs or tolerances does not intepret "justice for all". Maybe equality in areas for all....But as we all find out sooner or later, Justice does prevail, whether it is soon or on Judgement Day.
I find that in the news, the people who normally feel they are being "sorted" out are actually the ones who are the vast accusers. How about sticking to reporting the news, as in facts, rather than bringing in your own personal beliefs.
um....
this is an opinion blog.
Magic?
You mean like spontaneous generation magic?
Biblical Magic
@DanBeyer
"You mean like spontaneous generation magic?"
1) Spontaneous generation was an explanation for how life developed *before* the theory of biological evolution gained wide acceptance as the explanation for the observations we have made about how organisms have developed in nature.
2) Spontaneous generation is Biblical dogma for the existence of God. According to this theological view, God has always existed. He spontaneously existed. Noting created him (although I'm not sure why we assign sexuality to a being that does not procreate and is not subject to duality).
If you would like to look up the etymology for the word "magic" you will find references to the supernatural, not something that factors into the study of the natural science. You will also find references to priestly classes and the relationship to the Magi (Persian word) of the Biblical story of Jesus' birth.
Strange how someone who I assume to be Christian is so dismissive of "magic" when the concept is the fundamental underpinning to religious belief and Christianity in particular.
Hope this helps.
spot on marv...
...right to the point.
exactly like spontaneous generation magic...
throw a couple of oil baron politicians and rabid neo-conservative bible thumpers in a corner and a religious oil war magically appears...
In response to:
Magic?
Submitted by DanBeyer on January 20, 2009 - 12:44pm.
You mean like spontaneous generation magic?
Yael, I think you totally
Yael,
I think you totally missed Rick Warren's point when he said, "civility when differing".
I think he was refering to the fact that we are a diverse nation, and that we need to recognize that people with whom we differ have a point of view based on the beliefs that they find axiomatic, just as we do. It is possible to disagree without being the enemy, evil, intolerant or bad people.
It does not matter if our point of view is liberal, conservative, left, right, christian, atheist or whatever.
As a Christian, Mr. Warren believes that active homosexual behaviors are unacceptable.
I disagree, as a religious non-believer, I don't find any behavior inherently unacceptable. As a believer in a constitutional republic, like The United States, I believe that only the behaviors that a majority have designated as uacceptable are so.
This does not make Mr. Warren intolerant, it just makes him someone with whom I disagree.
GOD FORBID! A Christan preacher used Jesus' name!
Horror of horrors! Abomination of abominations!
What has this world come to?! Hell on earth I tell you! Woe! Woe unto the earth!
Well said Yael...
I'm not sure how reducing gay Americans to a second class citizenship is Christian, and I'll never understand how opposing discrimination in All it's subtle and blatant forms could ever be considered anti-Christian. Words are easy to speak, but possess the power to change if spoken true. So I say, well said Yael. If Warren could actually show some of that respect, instead of just talking about it, then I'd be the 1st to recognize it. Untill then, I can't call it anything more than lip service & book sales...
Warrens Prayer Missed the Mark
As a practicing Christian, I found that Warren's prayer missed the mark. He gave lip service, but does not practice what he preaches.
It was not a prayer of a diverse nation, but a prayer that was was meant only for Christians. It was as divisive as his stance on many topics that are debated within religious communities.
I nodded my head in agreement when he said "Dr. King and his witnesses are shouting in heaven," and so on. He lost me at the end when invoking the name Jesus. It shows lack of respect for the many faiths that our nation is composed of.
Joseph Lowery was a wonderful choice for the benediction and showed how a prayer can set a tone of reconciliation, not pushing a divide even further.
Warren does not represent all Christians, and not every Christian feels this is a "Christian" nation. His prayer fell short and reeked of inclusiveness and Evangelical tone.
Jenks - WHAT do you want?
Warren was invited by Obama. Warren is a Christian. Obama says he is a Christian. Obama knows what Warren represents. But you seem to think that a Christian preacher is to preach to all religions. That would be like asking a guy that only knows Spanish to preach to a group of 95% English-speakers. There is no such preacher that will pray to all religions. Then you have the Atheists who aren't happy whatever priest, preacher, rabbi or cleric is praying. So you must be complaining to just hear yourself complain. Actually, your complaint should be in the form of an email to Obama.
As does Dan Beyer's post
Given Beyer's demonstrated lack of familiarity with the Christian Bible, one has to question whether he's truly a Christian himself, or simply a divisive little hate-filled man who wants to twist the identity to his own hateful ends.
bad choice having Warren talk...
...but somewhat necessary to appease the nut job Jesus magic fanatics out there, an unfortunate sign of the times. Obviously they should have had someone talk about God in a general way instead of spouting off about the wonders of baby Jesus. We need to bring people together and not battle over how one network of invisible supernatural superfriends is better than the other. People lack empathy, if you thought that Warren's self-serving speech was appropriate then imagine if a sole Muslim religious figure got up and started preaching about how we are all here only for Allah’s grace, would you feel slighted or alienated? We are a heterogeneous country, and the time has come for the intolerant factions of the Christian community (obviously not the majority of Christians) to lose power in politics, and they are going to get angry in their new found helplessness. As an atheist I am used to having my beliefs marginalized, but it was nice to hear Obama say "We will restore science to its proper place" and "We are a country of Christians, Muslims, ......, and non-believers"; finally a shout out for empiricists! Joseph Lowery on the other hand gave a very moving and conciliatory speech even from a non-believer's perspective.
"nut job Jesus magic
"nut job Jesus magic fanatics"
"spouting off all the wonders of baby Jesus"
"invisible supernatural superfriends"
Hmmm...
I submit this is not an example of "civility when differing".
Hmmm
You haven't engaged in much dialogue with Dan Beyer, have you?
Interesting Interpretation
How do you go from "civility when differing" to "a gentle reminder that anti-gay people like Warren and his followers need to be more accepting of gay people"? Talk about putting words into some one's mouth. "Civility when differing" to me means disagree, but be respectful and kind. And it speaks, as the previous comment says, to both sides. It also speaks to many issues. It is "creative" on Yael's part to take that comment, bend it to your liking and then re-present it as fact.
Let me offer a gentle reminder to those who preach tolerance that tolerance is inclusive of all things, even those you find intolerable. Selective tolerance is not tolerance at all.
Warren's prayer may have "hit the mark", however, Yael's interpretation missed greatly. Unless the target was to twist truth to forward his biased agenda. Then he got a bull's eye.
Civility when differing
A gentle reminder that anti-Christian people like Yael and his followers need to be more accepting of Christian people.
Dan
As a Christian, I've not witnessed Yael being "anti-Christian."