by George Harris Kansas City Star Reader Advisory Panel 2008
The Associated Press reported this afternoon that a bipartisan group of Senators had reached a tentative agreement to lend money to troubled domestic car makers to get them through the financial downturn. But lawmakers first want a business plan that demonstrates how car executives will make their companies viable.
Critics of the proposal to loan money to American car companies, such as GM, argue that GM should go through bankruptcy and reorganize. In this process the companies would likely get new management and shed many built-in debts and obligations, such as pension and health care costs, that are strangling them.
One problem is that there is no guarantee shaky financial markets would lend GM money to get them through the reorganization. Financial markets shuddered yesterday with the prospect of a liquidation of the car manufacturers, which would send ripple effects through the economy and increase already growing unemployment. Lawmakers apparently got the message and have recognized the impact of letting domestic companies liquidate.
The costs of the failure of domestic car companies would be enormous. In the event of either restructuring or liquidation, pension obligations would likely fall to the federal pension benefit guarantee corporation (PBGC), and taxpayers would foot the bill for this because the program is already underfunded because of inadequate employer contributions, short over ten billion dollars.
Retired auto workers would likely lose health care benefits, which are not covered under the PBGC, though federal tax credits are available to offset some of the costs of private insurance. However, these costs would also represent a loss of tax revenue to the government, making the cost of a government loan to car makers seem a good bargain.
Meanwhile, J.D. Power ratings released for 2008 show American manufacturers improving in quality measured by number of initial complaints. The JD Power web site states, “Non-luxury brands that earn 4 Power Circles and are considered better than most in terms of sales satisfaction are, in alphabetical order: Buick, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Mercury, Pontiac and Saturn. All rank above the industry average.” These ratings contradict widespread belief that American manufacturers are not producing high quality vehicles, though such criticism was no doubt valid through the 1970’s and 1980’s.
Though market share for domestic manufacturers has fallen, the fact is that GM remains the nation’s leader in sales, and Ford and Chrysler also hold significant domestic and international market share. These facts are stark contradiction to opponents of government intervention who say that domestic manufacturers are making vehicles that no one wants.
Some critics of domestic manufacturers, even conservative market-oriented critics, say these companies should have been producing “green” high miles per gallon or hybrid vehicles. But a market based producer makes what people want, and the sales figures for trucks and SUV’s demonstrate that there was high demand for these vehicles. Domestic manufacturers are, in fact, developing and selling hybrids, but no one should believe that these vehicles yet have sufficient market demand to rescue a company.
It may be a legitimate criticism for lawmakers to say that car makers did not adequately anticipate the changing marketplace. But it is equally fair to say that lawmakers also did not anticipate the changing real estate marketplace that produced our recent financial meltdown. If failure to predict points to incompetence, there is plenty of incompetence everywhere. Most importantly, pointing to anyone’s incompetence does not clearly point to what we should do in the future.
The debate over the auto “bailout” proposal is filled with contradiction and strange bedfellows. Liberals such as Michael Moore criticize GM along with Republican Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama. On Larry King Live Moore criticized GM for making “crap” and called for loan conditions requiring the company to begin to focus on mass transit. Moore’s anger is directed mainly at GM management, though his documentary “Roger and Me” was not about current GM management but previous management that closed plants that were no longer economically viable, exactly what conservative critics say should be done.
In addition to criticizing management, Shelby’s opposition to aiding domestic manufacturers may be because foreign companies have invested heavily in nonunion plants in his home state of Alabama.
And some of the public animosity toward domestic manufacturers likely stems from their ties to the United Auto Workers, who are seen as greedily protecting their jobs, salaries and benefits at the expense of the rest of us.
But the origins of the problems of the domestic car manufacturing industry are decades deep. Union and management fought bitterly to get their share of profits in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s.. GM, Ford and Chrysler did not easily give in to union demands for pension and health care costs and can hardly be blamed for giving away those legacy costs that now weigh down the industry. Likewise, unions should not be blamed for trying to protect their workers at a time when only adversarial relationships could do so.
The reality is that foreign car makers, Toyota and Honda, entered the U.S. market, established nonunion plants, and began producing good cars that sold well. They were allowed to establish themselves in the U.S. market without meeting the same labor conditions that domestic car makers had. It is also true that they were able to establish working conditions that allowed workers to be creative and highly productive, in large part because they were free of the strife that the union versus management “American” environment created in domestic companies. The American culture is, by nature, combative and adversarial, and we are slowly learning that this does not always work.
The Japanese business model worked, but it is not in this nation’s interest to blame either the domestic car companies (or management long since retired) or unions (or union leaders long since gone). America needs manufacturing jobs and has companies that have made great progress in changing manufacturing processes, reforming labor agreements, and developing competitive products. The loss of domestic car production would be devastating to the American economy, doubly so in a time of general economic decline.
A quite reasonable political concern about government intervening in the auto marketplace seemed sparse when financial institutions recently were calling for help. Is this because of the anger toward unions? disregard toward Main Street workers? desire to protect Wall Street?
The practical reality is that we cannot afford the job losses that would occur were domestic car makers to disappear. It is clear that those manufacturers need additional restructuring, but it is not certain that bankruptcy would permit this to happen without dissolving the companies.
There does need to be examination of ways to streamline domestic manufacturing while protecting workers adequately. And though auto workers should share in some of the sacrifice, how much sacrifice is fair for people who worked hard and played by the rules of their time.
The loan to the car makers should proceed. It is a reasonable risk for the country, given the alternatives.
(Note to readers of similar posts: Yes, there have been several articles on this site on the car bailout, and many of your earlier comments still apply. I don’t know how to get this all on one thread, so please comment at will, make links if you wish, and, as always, let’s have a good debate. I am very appreciative of your comments and feel that I have learned from them, so thanks!)








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Dr. Tantillo ('the marketing
Dr. Tantillo ('the marketing doctor') did a post on his blog, criticizing GM from a branding perspective. And while I think that politically, his positions are more or less opposite those of Michael Moore's, he blogged that in this case he agreed with Moore: that GM adopted a "we'll build it, you buy it"-approach, rather than listening to its Target Market.
"This is anti-marketing at its worst. Like with some of my other 'favorites' (i.e., Microsoft), it is an approach that is only possible when you are so big that you can grow by bullying and then, once wounded by the changing marketplace and competition, take a very long time to bleed to death. GM and Detroit have been bleeding to death for a long time." Tantillo's full post
intereting link, ChazzyKC and good comment GrinchforPrez
I hadn't heard about the prepackaged bankruptcy, which seems to assure financing and shorten the reorganization process. I'm not an econ major either, but this idea seems to have merit.
Grinch, I wish I could say how hard I have to swallow to write a blog recommending loaning a car company government money. When I was in college in the late 60's, I drove a Ford, which was complete junk. I'd take it in for service, get charged a bunch of money that I couldn't afford, and they still didn't fix it. And they didn't care. I knew some union guys making tons of money with no education while I was struggling to meet expenses to go to school, and they weren't helping me, and I've never forgotten it.
But as annoying as that was, I think it's not in my interest or the country's to let these companies fail and liquidate. The damage to the country is too great. I don't want my past anger (at people who are no longer there) to get in the way of my better judgment.
I certainly think the car companies and the unions should sacrifice. But the truth is, they already are. The unions now have a two tier salary system, with incoming workers starting around $14 per hour. They're not getting rich. The CEO's need to make a whole lot less than $14 million annually, too. So, yes, there needs to be restructuring and more cuts and some shared pain. But we need these jobs. They wouldn't just move over to foreign commpany plants in the U.S. Many of them would just go away, whether to Mexico or China or wherever. (I've been to China, which hardly makes me an expert, but what I saw convinced me we're in real trouble if we aren't careful about trying to compete with Chinese labor without real protections for U.S. workers.)
But (conservatives, get ready to howl) part of the solution is universal health care. One reason the Japanese car companies get by cheaply is that the GOVERNMENT pays for health care costs. Of course everyone is taxed for this, but the burden doesn't fall on a specific industry. If GM could shed employer paid health care costs, it would immediately become more competitive with foreign companies.
Yes, we'd all get taxed for this. But we have huge inefficiencies in our current health care system that would produce tremendous savings if corrected. That's the subject for another blog, but I know far more about the health care system than I do about cars, and I believe we could save tons of money with a better, more rational system that INCLUDES Medicare reform that McCain briefly mentioned but dropped from discussion because it's politically dangerous. But he was right.
Obama's team is consideraing prepackaged bankruptcy
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aRfqFMhlj5lk&refer=worldwide
Which is kind of the best of both worlds......
These are loans to a
These are loans to a struggling market sector, not a bailout. We're not giving them anything. Historically loans such as these have been paid back and the taxpayer has made money in the process. If they go under THEN we're stuck with a bailout. The pension funds become the problem of the US taxpayer. The increased health care burden on laid off workers and retirees comes as an expense to us with no payback. Unemployment for as many as ten million workers in related industries becomes our expense. Lost tax revenues, food stamps are the certain expenses we'll bear. THOSE are bailouts we cannot escape. How many billions will that cost us with no chance of recovery? Unless you're one of those who espouse economic anarchy as the ultimate in free market capitalism a paid back loan is the lesser of the evils we face.
Unions are the problem
I think that congress will proceed with the bailout because that would be best for the unions - and democrat congress owes the unions big time! I don't think the democrat congress gives a rats ass about the companies otherwise.
I have a real problem with the unions making out on this deal though. Those workers make way too much money for their skillset, plus they have benefits to kill for. Why is it that a high-school graduate can go to work at a carplant and make more than their high school teacher? Why, because their daddy or uncle works there, and they get preference? Then, at age 55 they can retire with close to full pay, and full paid insurance.
And when it comes time to vote in a presidential election, just vote the way the union tells you!
The workers do not have any allegiance to the company, in fact the company is the enemy that they and their union do battle with every few years.
I am proud to work for my employer, and if I do good work, I get rewarded. That's the way it should be. The only pride that autoworker has is to the UAW.
I feel that congress should let them file bankruptcy, unless the unions agree to spread the pain. If they do not - screw 'em!
Let em go Chapter 11...then guarantee private reinvestment
While my econ minor does not qualify me as an expert, I am a committed capitalist and believe strongly that the biggest mistake of many that Bush made in his woebegotten second term was his last ....the bailout.
To exacerbate the absurdity by throwing away 25 billion more in a doomed attempt at bailing out the big 3 is pure insanity.
I agree that maintaining a strong transportation manufacturing foundation is critical to both our economic and strategic futures which is why i would urge the big 3 to file chapter 11's and shed themselves of the ridiculous long term UAW benefits albatross that keeps them at a profound disadvantage in the global marketplace (as much as 3K per vehicle higher cost).
Since the current market cap is a little over seven billion combined for the big three, a practical solution would seem to be fairly simple.
Have the feds guarantee all reinvestments on the other side of the 11's. The upfront costs would be minimal and the technologies on the current drawing boards will not be lost to foreign based companies. The revitalized big 3 will be additionally enabled by new contemporarily designed labor agreements and franchised dealer agreements and the country would be far better served by what remains. I honestly believe that enabling our auto industry to reorganize with a contemporary business model is essential to our long term national security.
The dems will resist that strategy though for fear of alienating their traditional union based constituency.
Mitt Romney said it best in the wednesday NY Times op/ed piece
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html
well..
I have to agree.
I guess it boils down to whom are we actually bailing out here.
Are we bailing out the head honchos empire or the assembly line workers?
The truth is that if they do go under, someone else will step up and make the automobiles and perhaps even have sound business practices- but a greater concern is that the industry doesn't end up over seas.
Loans
"there is no guarantee shaky financial markets would lend GM money to get them through the reorganization."
This statement says it all. If people and banks are not willing to loan money to a company because they have no confidence on that company making a profit, why should the taxpayers pick up the tab?
The big three are bankrupt, their continued denial is not helping them and unless they willingly go through chapter 11 bankrupceny we the people should not hand them one dime.
The big 3 failing will hurt in the short run, but other capitalist will step in and take the profitable parts of those companies and make them competitive again. There is and always has been a market for cars and trucks, all that is needed is a good business model and the right leadership and management to take advantage of this opportunity to make cars we all want.
exactly
You aren't old fashioned at all.
I have always been against outsourcing jobs (manufacturing)for the cheaper bid(deal)
Manufacturing is a huge backbone.
I figure if we are helping keep the jobs here, help them stay here.
To me, it isn't about bailing out the private auto industry even if they weren't the best in business practice.
I look at it like this, if they go under, where in the devil will our autos be maunfactured at? Overseas, like the rest of the stuff we own.
To me, the govt (who has given so many tax incentives to corporations for outsourcing)the govt needs to now do more to secure the jobs here, and I think that includes helping the big three.
I am however, very torn about the whole bailing out the private sector lending and investment institutions.
Dumping money into that, is a hard one for me to chew on and truly digest.
Since consumer
Since consumer demand/spending is such a huge influence throughout the economy I'd have to say that all jobs are important but the ones that pay a living wage allowing the earner to provide for their needs, save/invest and pay the taxes that fund our joint efforts i.e. government in it's various forms, are the most highly prized. Low wage jobs that leave the earner wanting, or worse yet, dependent don't have sufficient cash flow and can't contribute to the greater economy beyond immediate consumption. Maybe I'm old fashioned to feel this way this but I think that making "things" is more beneficial than making deals. So manufacturing, construction, farming and producing goods, intellectual property (ideas), and needed services are the more desirable jobs. The auto industry is a mess and needs a whole lota fixing but it's something built build on.
As the quote goes, "we used to make Sh!# in this country, now we just stick our hands in the next guys pocket".
Perhaps..you all should answer this?
What jobs would you all speculate are the back bone of the working force of this nation's economic body?
Which job fields are the "framework" on which the economy thrives?
Grinch,you are on one
Grinch,you are on one serious toot today. First let me say how envious of you I am to have been able to retire after only 25 years. I also envious that your nest egg is untouchable. That matress must be stuffed full of loot. (Where did you say you live?) The only people I know of that could retire after 25 are military and civil servants but I'm sure that, given your philosophy, you'd never stoop to feed at the government trough. I'm also happy that your former job, whatever it was, was completely insulated from the ups and downs of the economy (are you sure you didn't work for the government? Were you a politician?)
So I'm curious, if you are safe secure and will never pay taxes again as you seem to be implying what's it to you if we save the automakers? It's no skin off your nose if the rest of us decide that saving up to ten millions US jobs and restructuring a major American industry is something we want to do? After all, these workers are working their butts off too, just like you.
Ain't no thing to you, right?
Thank you scoot - as an atheist, I will be an AFA supporter
Up yours, scoot - I am an atheist and strongly endorse the AFA's campaign - after all, CHRISTmas is about Christ, and I have no problem with that, even if I truly believe as I do that there is no supreme being. It's their holiday, and I am over 50 years old with good memories of Christmas past, and if others don't feel included, I could not care less. Celebrate some other damn holiday if you'd rather, like Kwanzaa, but just shut the hell up about your lousy mewling politicially correct diatribe that essentially says Christians hate others. Hell, I'm an ATHEIST and I support their holiday! Don't Jews celebrate their own unique holidays as do Muslims? Then why do people have to walk on tiptoes to avoid offending non-Christians during CHRISTMAS?
The answer is - they don't. It is politically correct dorks like yourself that are unable to understand that the vast majority of Jews and non-jihadist Muslims and other non-Christians actually respect Christmas and how Christians celebrate it (even me, a lousy atheist!) and do not seek to usurp it.
What is wrong with those of you who cannot respect this?
p.s. I suspected your name was a little suspicious, scootmandubious, so I Googled you and found out you're a raving liberal - which is your right, but I thought others should know this. You also call yourself a 'media professional' in your own blog, althugh you've had less than 13,000 views of your profile since Sep 2005 - so how are you a 'media professional'?
Here's your website ...http://www.scootmandubious.blogspot.com/
Really, if you're a professional, then what are you doing here?
Counter The AFA Boycott And Support Inclusive Stores
An AFA right-wing boycott is seeking to destroy stores that don't use the word 'Christmas' in their holiday advertising.
What if the stores are Jewish or Muslim owned? Doesn't matter. Stores say 'happy holidays' because they do not want their Jewish, Muslim, or atheist customers, as just some exaples, to feel left out. After all, they celebrate holidays this time of year too.
I have reposted the list and all their contact information so you can ask others to shop there.
Please send the stores feedback (links provided) and spread this list throughout the net. Neuter their bigoted, un-American plan.
It is all at:
http://scootmandubious.blogspot.com/2008/11/fight-afa-boycott.html
I have no further comments, except I think Greenies are idiots
You're obviously enamored of your viewpoints - congratulations.
Let me introduce myself - I am a formerly productive member of society, who, having saved and worked my ass off in the past 25 years, has accumulated a nest egg beyond the reach of the government or the market. In view of the absolute crap I am reading here, where people think that we 'owe' the car companies anything, I'd like to inform you that I hereby pledge never to work productively again.
I am serious. Those of you who think you can tax the productive of us into oblivion - go to hell. George, I don't ascribe these sentiments to you, but you had better learn something soon - "practical reality" is a euphemism for socialism - I have seen this term often and it always means that you must sacrifice your beliefs for expediency.
Is that what YOU really want, George? When did "protecting workers" become an automatic reflexive reaction? This is complete nonsense, since those workers could find work elsewhere and they are NOT guaranteed a lifetime in their job choice. Since when did you decide that a worker's job is forever fixed in stone?
The longer this market continues its inexorable downward trend, which I've predicted just recently, the more you see articles with this tone.
BeyondGreen, good points
BeyondGreen, I haven't read this book but will get it. Thanks. I'm no green technology expert, but I think several things are clear:
1. battery technology now exists to allow cars to go 20 to 30 miles on a charge before using a drop of oil. The Volt is supposed to go 40. The 20 mile batteries cost 3K or so. It'd reduce oil consumption by 1/3rd because most trips are short.
2. Corn ethanol is inefficient but sugarcane ethanol is pretty good. Switchgrass ethanol also appears to be ready. All cars should be E85 capable. These cars can also run on methanol made from coal, which is plentiful.
3. Requiring fuel efficient cars would also obviously help.
This combination of high mpg cars, batteries and ethanol would cut use of oil to well less than half of current levels, and would eliminate imports from the middle east. This is existing technology.
Why don't the car manufacturers do this? Why would they! No one is making them, and "market forces" simply don't work to make this kind of thing happen...without a crisis.
Conservatives don't like government stepping in to force these changes, but I think it's a national security issue and hope the next administration is forward looking. We need domestic car companies because it will be easier to require them to produce these cars than to require the Chinese to do it when we owe them trillions of $$$.
My expertise on these issues is, well, not expertise but the opinion of a layman who reads. I'd love to hear from others with real experience in the industry.
Our transportation mess...
Posted by BeyondGreen
Electric cars would cost the equilalent of 60 cents a gallon to charge and drive. The electricity could be generated from solar or wind sources.Fossil fuels are finite. We are using oil at twice the rate we are discovering new oil. We need to get on about the business of becoming energy independent and using alternative sources of fuel. The high cost of gas this past year seriously damaged our economy and society. While we are doing the happy dance around the lower prices at the pumps OPEC is planning further production cuts to drive prices back up. We have the knowledge, we have the technology, what America lacks is a plan. Jeff Wilson has a new book out that is beyond awesome. The Manhattan Project of 2009 Energy Independence NOW. He walks you through every aspect of oil, what it is used for besides gas, our depletion of it. The worlds increased need ie 3rd world countries becoming more modernized and consuming more. He explains EVERY alternative energy source and what role they can play to replace oil. His research is backed up with hard data and even includes a time frame and proposed legislative agendas to wean America off oil. www.themanhattanprojectof2009.com