By Yael T. Abouhalkah, Kansas City Star Editorial Page columnist
The morning after, it's even easier to see exactly how Joe Biden won Thursday's debate -- and precisely how Sarah Palin faltered.
The highlights:
-- Biden wasn't smug, he wasn't condescending and yet he hammered home point after point, such as linking John McCain to President Bush's failed policies.
-- Biden stayed on point. He didn't wander around after moderator Gwen Ifill asked a question. Whether it was Iran, the bailout or other topics, Biden answered what he was asked.
-- Biden talked about foreign affairs like he knew the trouble spots of the world and how he and Barack Obama would handle them.
On the other hand:
-- While Palin didn't commit huge gaffes, she wandered all over the place in answering questions. It was noticeable, and made it clear Palin's knowledge of many topics was skin-deep.
-- Palin tried too hard to appeal to "Joe Six Pack" and her efforts to connect to the "middle class" -- words McCain hardly mentioned in his debate -- came off strained.
-- Finally, Palin only once or twice actually had the goods in attacking Biden or Obama. One successful thrust was, ironically, to praise Biden for opposing some of Obama's anti-Iraq war policies. Other than that, Palin didn't lay a hand on Biden.
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Interesting post. I have
Interesting post. I have been wondering about this issue,so thanks for posting. I’ll likely be coming back to your blog. Keep up great writing.
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PilonidalCystBoy....
you liberals just have to insult people... grow up
Struttin' & blowin' kisses
She oughta run for Mrs. America! A vp debate is NOT the place to strut onto the stage blowing kisses. (As John McEnroe once said, "You cannot be serious?")
Then what came out of her mouth were her handlers' words with a few of her cutesy vaporous banalities thrown in. That Sixpack Hockeymom is still not ready to be in a position to assume the presidency. Truly an embarassment for the US in the international arena.
And The Thin One is Ready to be President??
meet with terrorists without reservation, Reverend Wrong, Bill Ayres, Tony Resko...
The Thin One, a closes racist and a socialist...
KCGrunt gets out of class...
"Liberals insult people." And conservatives lie. 'Zat your idea of productive dialogue, KCGRunt? "The Thin One"--sparkling wit! Please keep it up, calling Obama names has done wonders for McCain so far. Keating. Hagee.
PilonidalCystBoy
I will say once more very slowwwwwy so your liberal mind can understand, The Thin One is not calling the messiah a name, it is, rather, a statement of his woeful unpreparedness to assume the presidency of America...
Sorry to upset your liberal "mind"....
Well, thank you. Now in return...
Here's how adults handle that sort of thing. If you think this is worth bringing up every time you wish to refer to President Obama, all you have to do is say, "President Obama, who is woefully unprepared to be President of the United States..."
The difference is that by calling him a name that means something special to you and to no one else, you can expect none of those who, out of sheer boredom, read your uninformative little "posts," to "get" your "barb," unless you're prepared to explain the joke every time you post. See how simple, jugend?
Poli Sci majors are so difficult to housebreak.
I have a new stalker..
...isn't that neat? Poor Interface will have to share me with someone else. I'm good with that.
Because as all know...
...it's all about jenniferm!
Nice dodge to a non-issue, avoiding the necessity of admitting you didn't know that "sponsor" means "write."
Does this make me a stalker, though? I'd hate for my parents to find out.
Cool. More insults.
You seem to be the one responding to what I write--even if its not directed at you. Hey, I get what your job here is. You aren't the first, and you won't be the last--keep it up, I'm not going anywhere.
So you live with your parents?
I'm here til 5:00, and alas, don't really post on the weekends so please, please get your digs in now. I can't wait to read them!!!
Got anything else?
Insults? Mm, no, not really.
But it would be nice to get some recognition from you that you seem to have a lot more posts here that reference your feeeeelllinnnggggss than actual issues, like the ones called "Topics." Try focusing more on intelligent discourse and less on whether your worth as an individual is being properly recognized by your subjects, see what happens.
Is that the best you can do?
Gosh, I was expecting so much more than that from you. Very disappointing. Look, I'm only here another couple of hours--if you are not going to take this insulting business seriously, then why play the game?
Try and do better. Got anything else?
Well, I tried
I wish I had some links to singles sites to give you, but I really don't. I feel a little uncomfortable, getting caught up in your ongoing insistence that this blog is about jenniferm and not some silly people in suits talking about politics on television, so I think I'll go somewhere else with fewer attention queens. Ta, and if no one else has told you, please drop your keyboard off at HR on your way out.
Again, very disappointing
I really thought you had some potential. That insulting ability you have isn't really all that new or exciting--at least on this blog.
Have a nice weekend! I'm sure you will see me here on Monday and you will, as your nature has been the past couple of days, to follow me around with your witty comments.
What is that, seven in a row?
Amazing--jenniferm continues her record-breaking string of posts about jenniferm, vs. responding to the topic. Is that six? Seven?
Why count--unless you care?
Funny, I post a comment, then, someone chooses to respond to my comment in their typically juvenile manner. Then I respond, then another comment directed at me. Then I respond. Another comment directed at me. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Rest assured, anything directed my way, I respond to.
I would like to repeat that I am extremely disappointed that the comments directed at me became much more lame as the day wore on. Really no imagination or originally. I was hoping for so much more.
Go Read "Half Baked Alaskan"
Hey Jen, go Read Half-Baked Alaskan.....
you're gonna love it
Wrong Again PilonidalCystBoy
Try MB?. I will let your liberal mind go through the alphabet until you get a match....
Are you also keeping track of your posts of nonsense?
Agrees with Bush
So, if Obama sponsered or co-sponsered 15 bills and they became law does that mean Obama agrees with President Bush? Are you really sure your base wants to hear this?
Agrees with Bush???
Ken you lost me. I'm not clear what your question is? Did you mean to say it the other way around? i.e. Did you mean to say... 'does that mean Bush agrees with Obama?' I'm assuming that is what you meant.
kenm_1262 Question: So, if Obama sponsered or co-sponsered 15 bills and they became law does that mean Obama agrees with President Bush? Are you really sure your base wants to hear this?
Answer: If the bill is passed in both the Senate and House, the bill goes to the President of the United States. If the president signs the bill, it then becomes a law. It may also become law if the president does not sign it for 10 days. If the president rejects (vetoes) the bill, it can still become a law if two-thirds of the Senate and two-thirds of the House then vote in favor of the bill.
Seen that cut and paste job before
Yet, still does not answer the questions asked--of course, who I actually asked the question of, seems to have run away, again. And naturally, its better to insult people and use the classy, and ever present (at least on this blog) tactic of name calling. So tiresome.
Sponsoring or co-sponsoring legislation is not the same as writing it. Or pushing something through (you know, take a stand on something). But thanks for playing along.
Like I said, that cut and paste job of all those impressive (that's snark, of course) bills has been done before. And what's really funny, even Interface hasn't used that crap as a means to boost Obama's stature.
Clarification....
Definition: “sponsor” legislation means the Senator is the author and main proponent of a measure or an amendment.
Definition: “co-sponsor” legislation, which signifies that he is joining one or more other members to introduce a measure and is one of the main supporters of the effort.
Oh, goody
Are you entirely sure you know what the term "sponsor" a bill means?
"Crap" - I'm so embarrassed about name-calling, when the dialogue here is being conducted at such a high level.
Obama Accomplishments
Of the 15 bills Senator Obama sponsored or co-sponsored in 2005-7 that became law:
Two addressed foreign policy:
Promote relief, security and democracy in the Congo (2125)
Develop democratic institutions in areas under Palestinian control (2370).
Three addressed public health:
Improve mine safety (2803)
Increased breast cancer funding (597)
Reduce preterm delivery and complications, reduce infant mortality (707).
Two addressed openness and accountability in government:
Strengthening the Freedom of Information Act (2488)
Full disclosure of all entities receiving federal funds (2590)
Two addressed national security
Extend Terrorist Risk Insurance (467)
Amend the Patriot Act (2167)
One addressed the needs of the Armed Forces
Wave passport fees to visit graves, attend memorials/funerals of veterans abroad (1184).
Of the 570 bills Senator Obama introduced into the Senate during the 109th and 110th Congress (Senate Bill numbers are in parentheses), they can be summarized as follows:
25 addressed Energy Efficiency and Climate Change
Suspend royalty relief for oil and gas (115)
Reduce dependence on oil; use of alternative energy sources (133)
Increase fuel economy standards for cars (767, 768)
Auto industry incentives for fuel efficient vehicles (1151)
Reduce green house gas emissions (1324)
Establish at NSF a climate change education program (1389)
Increase renewable content of gasoline (2202)
Energy emergency relief for small businesses and farms (269)
Strategic gasoline and fuel reserves (1794)
Alternative diesel standards (3554)
Coal to liquid fuel promotion (3623)
Renewable diesel standards (1920)
Reducing global warming pollution from vehicles (2555)
Fuel security and consumer choice (1994, 2025)
Alternative energy refueling system (2614)
Climate change education (1389)
Low income energy assistance (2405)
Oil savings targets (339)
Fuel economy reform (3694)
Plug-in electric drive vehicles (1617)
Nuclear release notice (2348)
Passenger rail investment (294)
Energy relief for low income families (2405)
21 addressed Health Care
Drug re-importation (334)
Health information technology (1262, 1418)
Discount drug prices (2347)
Health care associated infections (2278)
Hospital quality report cards (692, 1824)
Medical error disclosure and compensation (1784)
Emergency medical care and response (1873)
Stem cell research (5)
Medical Malpractice insurance (1525)
Health centers renewal (901, 3771)
Children’s health insurance (401)
Home health care (2061)
Medicare independent living (2103)
Microbicides for HIV/AIDS (823)
Ovarian cancer biomarker research (2569)
Gynological cancers (1172)
Access to personalized medicine through use of human genome (976)
Paralysis research and care (1183)
20 addressed Public Health:
Violence against women (1197)
Biodefense and pandemic preparedness and response (1821, 1880)
Viral influenza control (969)
End homelessness (1518)
Reduce STDs/unintended pregnancy (1790)
Smoking prevention and tobacco control (625)
Minority health improvement and disparity elimination (4024)
Nutrition and physical education in schools (2066)
Health impact assessments (1067, 2506)
Healthy communities (1068)
Combat methamphetamines (2071)
Paid sick leave (910)
Prohibit mercury sales (833, 1818)
Prohibit sale of lead products (1306, 2132)
Lead exposure in children (1811, 2132)
14 address Consumer Protection/Labor
Stop unfair labor practices (842)
Fair minimum wage (2, 1062, 2725, 3829)
Internet freedom (2917)
Credit card safety (2411)
Media ownership (2332)
Protecting taxpayer privacy (2484)
Working family child assistance (218)
Habeus Corpus Restoration (185)
Bankruptcy protection for employees and retirees (2092)
FAA fair labor management dispute resolution (2201)
Working families flexibility (2419).
13 addressed the Needs of Veterans and the Armed Forces:
Improve Benefits (117)
Suicide prevention (479)
Needs of homeless veterans (1180)
Homes for veterans (1084)
GI Bill enhancement (43)
Military job protection
Dignity in care for wounded vets (713)
Housing assistance for low income veterans (1084)
Military children in public schools (2151)
Military eye injury research and care (1999)
Research physical/mental health needs from Iraq War (1271)
Proper administration of discharge for personality disorder (1817, 1885)
Security of personal data of veterans (3592)
12 addressed Congressional Ethics and Accountability
Lobbying and ethics reform (230)
Stop fraud (2280)
Legislative transparency and accountability (525)
Open government (2180, 2488)
Restoring fiscal discipline (10)
Transparency and integrity in earmarks (2261)
Accountability of conference committee deliberations and reports (2179)
Federal funding accountability and transparency (2590)
Accountability and oversight for private security functions under Federal
contract (674)
Accountability for contractors and personnel under federal contracts
(2147) Resctrictions awarding government contracts (2519)
10 addressed Foreign Policy:
Iraq war de-escalation (313)
US policy for Iraq (433),
Divestiture from Iran (1430)
Sudan divestment authorization (831)
Millennium Development Goals (2433)
Multilateral debt relief (1320)
Development bank reform (1129)
Nuclear nonproliferation (3131,977,2224).
9 address Voting/Elections
Prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections (453)
Voter access to polls and services in Federal elections (737)
Voter intimidation and deceptive practices (1975)
Senate campaign disclosure parity (185)
Require reporting for bundled campaign contributions (2030)
Election jamming prevention (4102)
Campaign disclosure parity (223)
Presidential funding (2412)
Integrity of electronic voting systems (1487)
11 addressed Education
Increase access of low income African Americans to higher education (1513)
Establish teaching residency programs (1574)
Increase early intervention services (2111)
Middle school curriculum improvements (2227)
Public database of scholarships, fellowships and financial aid (2428)
Summer learning programs (116)
TANF financial education promotion (924)
Higher education (1642)
Build capacity at community colleges (379)
Campus law enforcement in emergencies (1228)
Support for teachers (2060).
6 addressed Hurrican Katrina
Hurricane Katrina recovery (2319)
Emergency relief (1637)
Bankruptcy relief and community protection (1647)
Working family tax relief (2257)
Fair wages for recovery workers (1749)
Gulf coast infrastructure redevelopment (1836)
5 addressed the Environment
Drinking water security (218, 1426)
Water resources development (728)
Waste water treatment (1995)
Combat illegal logging (1930)
Spent nuclear fuel tracking and Acountability (1194)
Asian Carp Prevention and Control Act (Introduced in Senate)[S.726.IS ]
4 addressed Discrimination
Claims for civil class action based on discrimination (1989)
Domestic partnership benefits (2521)
Unresolved civil rights crimes (535)
Equality or two parent families (2286)
4 addressed Homeland Security
Judicial review of FISA orders (2369)
National emergency family locator (1630)
Amend US Patriot Act (2167)
Chemical security and safety (2486)
Next time someone asks you "where's the beef" in Senator Obama's Senate record, please feel free to send the link to this post.
Editorial
October 3, 2008
Editorial
The Vice-Presidential Debate
We cannot recall when there were lower expectations for a candidate than the ones that preceded Sarah Palin’s appearance in Thursday night’s vice-presidential debate with Joseph Biden. After a series of stumbling interviews that raised serious doubts even among conservatives about her fitness to serve as vice president, Ms. Palin had to do little more than say one or two sensible things and avoid an election-defining gaffe.
By that standard, but only by that standard, the governor of Alaska did well. But Ms. Palin never really got beyond her talking points in 90 minutes, mostly repeating clichés and tired attack lines and energetically refusing to answer far too many questions.
Senator Biden did well, avoiding one of his own infamous gaffes, while showing a clear grasp of the big picture and the details. He left Ms. Palin way behind on most issues, especially foreign policy and national security, where she just seemed lost. It was in those moments that her lack of experience — two terms as mayor of a tiny Anchorage suburb and less than two years as governor — was most painfully evident.
Asked about Israel, Ms. Palin reeled off her support for “a two-state solution, building our embassy also in Jerusalem, those things that we look forward to being able to accomplish with this peace-seeking nation.” Asked about the possible use of nuclear weapons, she declared “nuclear weaponry, of course, would be the be-all, end-all of just too many people and too many parts of our planet.” On Iraq, all she had to offer was the false accusation that Barack Obama wants to surrender.
Mr. Biden directly challenged Ms. Palin’s debate prep on Afghanistan — pointing out that the commander there had disagreed with Mr. McCain’s call for an Iraq-style “surge” in Afghanistan. Ms. Palin tried to contradict him, but the most memorable part of her answer was that she got the general’s name wrong.
One can argue (and her supporters will) that Ms. Palin is a newcomer and can’t be expected to know all of the wonkish details, that what matters is the image she projects. Except, anyone who is running for vice president in these very dangerous times needs to have detailed knowledge.
When it came to domestic issues, Ms. Palin mainly relied on enthusiasm and humor, talking about hockey moms, soccer moms and Joe Sixpack almost as often as she used the word “maverick” to describe Mr. McCain or herself.
But she offered virtually no detail — beyond the Republican mantra of tax cuts — for how she and Mr. McCain would address the financial crisis or help Americans avoid foreclosure or what programs they would cut because of the country’s disastrous fiscal problems.
Ms. Palin’s primary tactic was simply to repeat the same thing over and over: John McCain is a maverick. So is she. To stay on that course, she had to indulge in some wildly circular logic: America does not want another Washington insider. They want Mr. McCain (who has been in Congress for nearly 26 years). Ms. Palin condemned Wall Street greed and said she and Mr. McCain would “demand” strict oversight. In virtually the next breath, she said government should “get out of the way” of American business.
There were occasional, disturbing flashes of the old, pre-campaign Sarah Palin. Asked about the causes of global warming, Ms. Palin suggested that man had some role — but she wasn’t saying how much.
In the end, the debate did not change the essential truth of Ms. Palin’s candidacy: Mr. McCain made a wildly irresponsible choice that shattered the image he created for himself as the honest, seasoned, experienced man of principle and judgment. It was either an act of incredible cynicism or appallingly bad judgment.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/03/opinion/03fri1.html
NY Times
The same folks who brought us the truth on the run up to the Iraq War? That NY Times.
NY Times = Judith Miller
Still cutting and pasting that same bio on Obama, huh? Up to about 10-11 times I would guess.
Again, you leave out the PART TIME job of the Illinois legislature and after only about 140-150 days in the US Senate, Obama thought he was qualified for the POTUS. Plus, you never share any accomplishments of his community organizer activities, link to any published Harvard writings, or list ANY legislative accomplishments he has done. Nothing. Why is that? Why do you not provide any details of your Obama love?
jenniferm, right again
A VERY good question. At this point, why bother? In a few short weeks, John McCain will have a new status as an honorable but hopelessly overmatched warrior, a replacement for the now 85-year-old Bob Dole, and Sarah Palin will be running from the law through the North Woods in her designer mukluks. Not much left to the Democrats but guarding against overconfidence.
since Rogue brought up experience
I feel it's apropos to post this again:
By the same standard, Abe Lincoln wouldn't be qualified for the presidency either. Prior to being elected president, Lincoln’s previous experience in public office consisted of one term in the U.S. House, several terms in the Illinois Legislature and a brief tenure as postmaster of New Salem, Ill. He was also an unsuccessful merchant, a successful lawyer and twice an unsuccessful candidate for the U.S. Senate.
Lincoln’s immediate predecessor, James Buchanan, served 10 years in the U.S. House, 10 in the U.S. Senate, 4 as secretary of state and represented the United States in Britain and Russia before winning the White House in 1856. Yet historians are almost unanimous in portraying him as a president who dithered ineffectively while the country raced toward the precipice of civil war.
Obama's 12 years in elective office, including eight in the Illinois state senate (representing a constituency of over 200,000 people) before being elected to the U.S. Senate, is nothing to sneeze at. Neither are his experiences as a grassroots community organizer to combat poverty, successful attorney, and law professor at one of the nation's premier law schools, after having graduated magna cum laude from Harvard and serving as the editor of the Harvard Law Review.
I'd say that Senator Obama is as qualified as any, and the effective way he's run his national campaign has certainly given us considerable evidence that he has an able leadership style.
Senator Obama is a leader, one with a vision that will make America strong again, after eight years of misrule by McCain and the Republicans.
Experiience?
ACORN employee contributing to the mortgage crisis even in his youth! Shazaam!
Excues me I have to go cling to my guns and religion now. Please carry on and talk to yourself Sore on the Butt of Mankind.
I unnerstand, you betcha
Got to prep for that lunch crowd, ya know.
As opposed to the ACORN employee
and the veteran of 143 days in the Senate. McCain has a record, you may not agree with it, but he has one along with "slightly" more experience.
William Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Franklin Raines, Jim Johnson, et. al. Show me who you run with and I will tell you what you are.
Experience? No kinda experience that really counts, you betcha
Little John don't have no experience that THIS country needs, yah (wink). He needs to be mayor of a small town, governor of a tiny state, and try bein' a hockey mom in midwinter in Alaska, you'll ferget all about those VC prison guards, that's right. Executive experience, that's the ticket.
On Point
Biden stayed on point, that is what won the debate? His points tended to be wrong, just do the fact checks. I am not sure he did a good job of selling his candidate, Palin did a much better job of that and it is a much tougher sell to be honest.
Biden knows lots of things, but it was Palin who articulated a vision of what needs to happen. THe vision Biden has is one of more taxes, regulations, and income redistribution. The Obama Biden ticket is a socialist ticket plain and simple.
Last point, the foreign policy guy on the stage was schooled by Palin when she said the fundamental counterinsurgency strategy used in Iraq would work in Afghanistan and Biden had no response. Biden is no foreign policy visionary. THe fact that he is on the ticket is a reminder of the weakness of Obama in this area, but look at the record and you will find Biden is only an expert because he has been in the senate for 35 years.
Palin on point-au contraire
She said NOTHING that was substantive, she spoke in folksy generalities.
She also thinks she can expand the authority of the Vice presidency.
This simple woman knows NOTHING about the US Constitution.
She's Bush and Cheney in drag!
...and kenm_1262 almost sounds like a grown-up today...
...except that actually Biden did have a response. McKiernan did say the "fundamental counterinsurgency strategy" won't work. Common sense would tell you the same thing: Afghanistans' population density is a tiny fraction of Iraq's. And I wouldn't want to talk about the past, but look forward, forward forward, if my record were as godawful as John McCain's.
So in the tank....
You guys crack me up. Let me point out one thing. The only debater who spoke of the greatness of America and of a bright future for us was not "Gaffe" Biden; it was Gov. Palin
Your polls and your spin Alphabet will not elect Hussein Obama, no matter how much you wish for it.
I was hoping.
I was hoping that Palin would scratch her cheek with her middle finger when talking about Obama--or how about clean the poop off her shoes or wipe the dust off her shoulders--wouldn't that have been AWESOME!