Obama promises amnesty for illegal immigrants

more on illegal immigration ... based on the 11 percent drop in illegals (estimated, of course), looks like point #6 in my post elsewhere in this topic on how to deal with illegal immigration has merit:

"6 - make no concerted effort to deport the millions already here illegally - instead, do steps 1-5 and enforce all existing laws, and as happened in Oklahoma recently, the illegals will deport themselves. Eventually the problem will become much more manageable."

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/08/01/how-we-know-immigration-enforcement-is-working-part-i/

Excerpt:

How we know immigration enforcement is working–Part I

By see-dubya • August 1, 2008 12:20 AM

"The independent (but pro-enforcement) Center for Immigration Studies estimates an eleven percent drop in the number of illegal aliens in America from last August to this May.

Though I believe enforcement is effective, I don’t believe that change is conclusive proof of its effectiveness. After all, the voluntary self-deportations might have occurred mainly for economic reasons instead of the fear of enforcement. Still, I’m sure it played some part."

Don't try to place all the blame on the employers,after all illegal aliens do use stolen social security numbers or make one up to get a job. (70% in Iowa) They also cross our border illegally. From reading your post,your true agenda is to get amnesty for 12-20 million illegal aliens.What do you tell the millions of immigrants that are waiting in their own country to enter here the "Legal" way? Tough luck.

Before The Hart-Celler Act of 1965 (Thank you Senator Kennedy)and the 1986 Amnesty Act ( Thank you Senator Kennedy) most Americans wanted population control in the US.Now we allow in around 2,000,000 legal immigrants a year plus their extended families,(Mother,Father,Sister ,Brother and their children.)That adds millions more.Then you have the 12-20 million illegal Aliens that Congress wants to give Amnesty to.If that's granted,then you have their extended families,which will add millions more.Then you have the 500,000 that still cross our southern border illegally each year.The US current population is 304,000,000,not to long ago we exported our surplus food,now we import half,In the near future 36 states will have a water shortage,Some studies show the US population at 450,000,000 by the year 2050.Has anyone ask their Congressman and Senators what quality of life our Children and Grand Children will have? Social Security,in 1996 the Social Security Administration signed an agreement with Mexico that will give Social Security payments to some of the 12-20 million illegal aliens once they are granted amnesty, total cost over 50 billion dollars a year.Add the 45 billion dollars each year that the American tax payer donates for illegal aliens free medical care,food stamps,WIC,rent assistance,free school lunches,and translators at schools for their children and we have a ticking time bomb.Amnesty for 12-20 million illegal aliens and endless immigration is not the answer.I encourage everyone to write their Congressman and Senators and ask them what the total cost to the American tax payer will be if they grant amnesty to those 12-20 million illegal aliens,after all you and I and our children will foot the bill for their decision

"You think you're talking to a woman (AlmaKs is a place, you dullard, not a person)"

I mean, this is good stuff, really!

You don't seem to get it.
You say silly stuff like, "you must have known I could not care less what your opinion is of me," after having posted in the recent past your entire c.v. starting with your standing in the senior graduating class in high school.
You want to "debate" global warming, when the last time the subject came up you posted links in support to absolute aluminum-foil-hat sites.
You think you're talking to a woman (AlmaKs is a place, you dullard, not a person) and you shift into full patronizing-male mode.
You want to set the agenda for any discussion that does take place.
And you still don't understand that nobody but nobody wants to know what makes you laugh or what you find amusing.

Great! Now, let's settle in to a serious discussion of the issues! Let ME start this time-"Are you a fool? Only a complete idiot could say something like that." Now...GO.

Get over ya'se'f.

Thanks for the insight. You bring up something I always find funny too - people who take the time to read blogs and then post opinions on how others are wasting their time, overlooking the fact that you just wasted your own time posting your thoughts, when you must have known I could not care less what your opinion is of me. If you have an actual issue to debate, like global warming, step out of the bleachers and get up to the plate, I'll play ball.

I'm still waiting for Miss Ad Hominem to say she'll stop attacking people and just attack the stuff she doesn't agree with. She's smart enough to know she does it, and smart enough to make cogent arguments, so hey, just do it already.

Speaking of which, my immigration views:

1 - build the fence

2 - deport all criminal illegal aliens once they're released from jail

3 - mandate employer verification of citizenship using the federal system already available, and enforce existing laws on the books to prevent illegals from working illegally

4 - when a person is arrested on at least a felony charge, run them through INS to see if they're illegal - if so, deport them, not release them, before they have a chance to simply walk away as they do now

5 - make it illegal for illegals to receive federal benefits, state tuition for colleges, etc

6 - make no concerted effort to deport the millions already here illegally - instead, do steps 1-5 and enforce all existing laws, and as happened in Oklahoma recently, the illegals will deport themselves. Eventually the problem will become much more manageable.

7 - change the immigration quotas to bring in a lot more people with actual skills, like Canada and the rest of the world does, instead of favoring unskilled laborers - in other words, people who will benefit America far more as well as pay more in taxes with their higher earning abilities

that was quite amusing, not to mention spot on.

GrinchforPrez, could you possibly go somewhere else to try and find lonely women to chat up? I know you want to share your feelings about what amuses you and what liberal antics you find delightful and hilarious and stuff, but I'm thinking there's probably some "chat room" somewhere with "web cams" and "screen names" where you can impress some lonely Section Eight-er in the U.P. with your amazing theories about how phony global warming is and the holes at the north and south poles were the saucers fly in and out of the hollow earth. Even here, people occasionally wander too close to an actual issue and get sucked into "dialogues."
Just a thought.

Ma'am Alma - your posts really are quite odd. I'm concerned for you - do you really believe you're the height of what passes for wit in your house? Why not try to stay focused on the subject - you attack people, when you should just attack their arguments.

Look, I'm simply repeating this because the enviro-Nazis have gotten a lot of naive people to accept their global warming hoax by rotely repeating it enough times - so if repetition equals acceptance, I was hoping it would work on you and you'd finally admit your grievous error.

p.s. Did you ever spit out what your Alma Mater was, Alma? And yes, I find it hilariously ironic that you seem to ridicule public education - but isn't it the liberal side that so loves public education while privately eschewing it themselves in favor of expensive private schools, the same schools where liberals continue unabated inbreeding of their ideas? In other words, hypocrites?

Mr. Balano,
What would be nice is if your side provided us your true agenda. Your true agenda is to MASS DEPORT all 12 million people here plus their "anchor babies" (as you call their citizen children.) Nevermind this equals the population of the state of New York. Nevermind 70% of Americans, when asked the "Mass Deportation" question say "NO". Nevermind this would leave the AgJobs industry total devastated.
The facts are you are afraid to put your true agenda on the table.
You do not call to put the real culprits (root causers) the Employers in Prison, even the most exploitive employers like Agriprocessors in Postville.
Stop skirting the issues.
Tell us what YOU really are asking for.
Your agenda:
1. MASS DEPORTATION of ALL Latinos, including citizen children and anyone else that disagrees with you.
2. Stop ALL Hispanics from Speaking Spanish in America. And stop businesses from using Spanish. Stop publishing anything in Spanish, in government or anywhere else. (TV and Radio too because ow, it hurts your ears)
3. Build a 2000 mile wall. Use Blackwater to patrol the border. Let the minutemen help because they want to drive their BIG pickup trucks and carry their shotguns. Use Blackwaters unmanned aircraft to patrol the innercities. (ala 1984)
4. End our Civil Liberties and make us ALL wear implants for e-verify.
5. Teach us all to walk in lockstep, marching to Heil, Heil, Heil!

Tell us your true agenda Balano.
Oh, I just typed it for you!

Mr. Balano,
I find it interesting your side makes up its own definitions for standards words. In the real world, Amnesty = a pardon. In reality, there is no instant pardon. What Obama said, "pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for citizenship." In other words, start the process from the beginning, which takes up to 12 - 20 years to complete, crime free. The laws broken are CIVIL offenses. Lets say you had a civil offense, like forgetting your insurance. Your penalty - go back to your insurance agent, repay for your insurance, wait for it to reach maturity (10 years) then you are now able to be considered insured. Doesn´t sound like "amnesty" to me.

I would have missed Obama's statement, had you not posted it:

"Yes, they broke the law. And we should not excuse that. We should require them to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for citizenship - behind those who came here legally. But we cannot - and should not - deport 12 million people."

I have serious concerns about illegal immigration, and this is so much more specific and detailed than John McCain's position, per his official website,

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm?sid=google&t=immigration

that I think the choice is clear as to who is going to do something about illegal immigrants. And I think it's even more impressive that Obama said this to a potentially hostile audience.

"If these so called businesses that you talk about that needs these Illegals to work or this Nation will go under is not at all true. "

Seriously.....get a grasp on our economy. If illegal immigrants (many of whom have been here for years or decades) packed up and left tomorrow, what do you think would happen to the construction industry? Or the farmers? Every single business in America would be affected. And despite the fact that you probably claim that you are paying taxes for them to be here, do you have any idea of the actual buying power this group has? They generate a tremendous amount of sales tax revenue. And yes, they need to pay additional payroll taxes as well. No question about it. These types of issues are extremely complicated and need to be addressed by grown-ups, not immature name-calling racists on random newspaper message boards. I notice that none of your calls for "enforcing the law" apply to anybody other than immigrants, here working their asses off. You certainly don't want the laws applied to the Bush administration. So, unless you want to really start enforcing the law - and investigate your own dear leader - I suggest you put on your thinking cap and start trying to find a real solution to the immigration problem, including creating a comprehensive immigration plan to realistically deal with the issue. If you can't do that, then step-aside and get out of the way while we put this country back together.....hard-working immigrants and all.

Nope, folks don't become legal until they meet specified criteria. Absent meeting those criteria, they remain non taxpaying illegals.

The American public supports a pragmatic path to legality. Fully 62% of Americans think that illegals who have been in the country at least two years should have an opportunity to apply for legalization:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/25/us/25poll.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

http://tamejavi.com/news/2007/national-survey.htm

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/12/lat_times_immigration_poll_ame.php

A path to legalization isn't amnesty, despite your misrepresentations.

Was exactly that. The day it would become law every illegal would become "legal" and in the process of paying a fine (12 million fines, who is going to enforce that?), and again in the process of "touching back" to their country of origin. Again I ask, enforcement?

No matter how much gas the left passes on this it is amnnesty to with the stroke of a pen sanction 12 million illegal acts. The American Public supports legal immigration, not the scoflaws who invade our country and then "demand their rights".

Stings, doesn't it, Miss Scarlett? Called out and you can summon neither force of fact nor riposte of wit to recapture your equanimity. You give it away so clearly when you're rattled: you start using sentence fragments and your word count per thought triples. Come back when you have something substantive. I'll check back next Shavuot.

A path to legality is not "amnesty," no matter how much the blowhards like Balano like to trumpet it.

It is kind of fun responding to Balano, as Alma demonstrates below, though refuting his two-dimensional tripe is akin to taking candy from a baby at times.

Just finished reading Ross's column and this thread I think Alma and Jen need to get back on their meds.

Why, Missy Alma, I never called you an idiot - I realize your brilliance outshines all of those unfit to lick your Doc Martens, but if you would take the time to actually read anything in depth, you would grasp the fact that I simply asked if you were an idiot - I never called you one. I also noticed you still can't actually admit you actively engage in 'ad hominem' attacks, instead of restricting your comments to whatever topic is being discussed - you really do need to work on that.

I positively love it when the mask comes off some liberals and you get to see what's really under all that makeup, and believe me, Mizz Alma, it isn't pretty. Wasn't it Obama who wanted to engage in civil discourse in his breathtakingly banal campaign? As opposed to the other mindnumbingly dumb campaign by the ersatz liberal McCain, who thinks kissing up to the likes of you is a smart idea. By 'civil' I don't mean 'not including the military' - I mean polite. Realizing you probably haven't learned how to be civil, based on your quite nasty and condescending posts, may I recommend a fine book for you to read?

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671723650

No need to thank me, Ms. Alma, it's all in a day's work. :-)

Obama will be changing his take on this issue in the next week or so--depending on the audience.

This is all pretty obvious. Why should our Government spend time keeping illegals out,when its creating One World Order and the North American Union. As Farr as building walls,one has to remember,walls can keep you in as well as keep you out.

Your tedious little public-school education doesn't qualify you to judge what I should have done or not done. Your having puzzled your way through a little H.L. Mencken (or more likely Emmett Tyrell) left you thinking that calling people idiots, boobs, morons, and liberal fools constitutes clever political discourse. And your current fascination with right-wing talk show hosts has led you to believe that aggressive namecalling on your part shocks and awes your helpless victims into submission while diverting their attention from the fact that you haven't addressed the issue on the table.
In this case the issue is that Barnacle Balano is playing stupid word games under the guise of political commentary. You never addressed that question because, of course, you can't; he's wrong, and your eighth-grade spittle-bubbling schoolyard bluster doesn't change that.
I suggest you find some better use for your time than bothering your betters on these blogs. I'm sure that Sony or Nintendo has some new fascinating role-playing game with levels and joysticks and all sorts of twists and turns that would keep you occupied for hours. Or you might read a book with hard covers, or pick at that blemish on your neck. Here, you expose yourself as a neon tetra who thinks he's a great white shark.

For any right-thinking American, Blano is correct on all points. Obama is for a quick and "comprehensive" amnesty. No questions asked if illegals committed identity theft (nearly all workers do), or what other crimes they've committed. No, unless they're gang members with a history of violent crime, they will all qualify for amnesty. And you can bet we'll luck out and get the violent gang members too (all the better to continue with their criminal enterprises).

Learn English? I wonder what the test will be. Make amends? For breaking so many laws? Why start now. Go to the back of the line for citizenship? Can anyone here even imagine a U.S. Federal agency like the Immigration and Citizenship Service dealing with these masses? Let's be real, it will probably be over 20 million of them, appearing at offices nation wide to apply for their legal status. Will they be properly vetted? Hardly. This would be costly beyond belief and with the job done exceedingly poorly to boot.

"Comprehensive Immigration Reform," if it did not really just mean amnesty, could be a good thing if out of it could evolve into sovereign borders and enforced laws. But that's not what it means. It means special interests, political parties, and big businesses getting what they need. The poor, stupid American taxpayer can just shut up and pay the bill.

To all you supporters of illegal aliens I ask you: How many is finally too many? When do you finally say ENOUGH? Or do you?

Your rebuttal is lame, Alma - you should have simply stayed with attacking his post, and not him. You'd have to be a genuine idiot to not understand that you viciously attacked him in addition to refuting his post.

"Amazing! And only Ross Balano, fire alarm salesman extraordinaire, is smart enough to see through the smoke and mirrors!"

"Balano HAS to be a Northener."

"An embarrassment to conservatives, mammals, and vertebrates in general."

Are you an idiot?

Well, it seems that everyone is civil here, it must be Obama bringing the Country together! But lets get back to the original issue here, illegal immigration is a huge problem, one that will require bi-partisan support. While many conservatives didn't favor McCain's bill, at least he was in the mix.

Where was the JUNIOR Senator from IL when the Senate needed him? He was practicing reading from a teleprompter! When has he ever played a key role in a major and controversial issue? He's never run a corner store, how many "Community Organizers" are out there? Can we put all their names in the hat and pull one to see who gets to run for President four years from now?

At http://www.DefeatObama.org/?refer=kc_0714 we are convincing Americans to Stop Dinking the Kool-Aid, one person at a time.

That’s amnesty any way you look at it.
======================================

Could you even pretend to show a little objectivity or are you fine with starting fires and preaching to the choir?

You must be the most disingenuous writer that posts on Midwest Voices

No, actually, I nailed what's wrong with the logical structure of Balano's column dead center. Obama tells the NATIONAL COUNCIL OF LA RAZA-not the Minutemen, not the Church of the Creator-that,
1. Yes, they broke the law.
2. We should not excuse that.
3. We should require them to pay a fine
4. We should require them to learn English
5. We should make them go to the back of the line for citizenship.
Balano's take? That's amnesty, and repugnant to a nation of laws.
No, Obama says,
1. Yes, they broke the law.
2. We should not excuse that.
3. We should require them to pay a fine
4. We should require them to learn English
5. We should make them go to the back of the line for citizenship.
That's not amnesty, and what is McCain offering as an alternative?

If you weren't a hopeless ideologue, GrinchforPrez, you'd see instantly why Balano's such an embarrassment to legitimate conservatives. It's a schoolboy game. Obama says the 'wrong' thing, he's an irresponsible liberal who can't be trusted to run the country. If Obama says the 'right' thing, he's obviously lying, since he's a lawyer/will say anything to get elected/a liberal, and you KNOW that Clinton proved that they all lie, u.s.w., u.s.w.
I grew up and stopped pulling that crap to win arguments about forty years ago. Balano thinks he's slicker than whale snot, and that that nonsense is clever. It isn't. Real conservatives can support their beliefs with real arguments. Balano can't. He's embarrassed himself before, he's embarrassing himself now.

Oh, BTW, I'll accept any reasonable person's assurance that Ross Balano does, in fact, exist. But I just ran "balano" through babelfish, and I got the feeling that maybe we're getting guppied here.

Nice job, Alma. I particularly like the way you attack the messenger so viciously - well done. Even as far as to insult him in comparison to mammals and vertebrates in general.

An outstanding 'ad hominem' attack - I congratulate you for an excellent example of what liberals do, rather than just attack the argument and leave it at that, you have to try to destroy the person. Just like the recent obit column on Tony Snow that impugned his knowledge.

Kudos. You've done exactly what another Midwest Voices columnist strongly advised against this past week, a non-conservative columnist to boot.

p.s. You're on a par with Walter Winch who posts here regularly. Insult or compliment, that's in the eye of the beholder.

Let's see, what Obama says, TO THE COUNCIL OF LA RAZA, mind, not the Minute Men:
1. Yes, they broke the law.
2. We should not excuse that.
3. We should require them to pay a fine
4. We should require them to learn English
5. We should make them go to the back of the line for citizenship.

"How does “a nation of laws” ignore the fact that 12 million people broke the law of the land by granting them amnesty?"

Well, according to Obama, we shouldn't. He says,
1. Yes, they broke the law.
2. We should not excuse that.
3. We should require them to pay a fine.
4. We should require them to learn English.
5. We should make them go to the back of the line for citizenship.

Did you get that, little rabbit?
1. Yes, they broke the law.
2. We should not excuse that.
3. We should require them to pay a fine.
4. We should require them to learn English.
5. We should make them go to the back of the line for citizenship.

Maybe your English skills are a little rusty, so I'll do this one more time, and this time I'll remind you who said it, and to whom:
1. Yes, they broke the law.
2. We should not excuse that.
3. We should require them to pay a fine
4. We should require them to learn English
5. We should make them go to the back of the line for citizenship.
---Barack Obama, to the National Council of La Raza

I got it! He's a lawyer, so he's gotta be lying! What he REALLY means is that
1. Yes, they broke the law.
2. We should excuse that.
3. We shouldn't require them to pay a fine
4. We shouldn't require them to learn English
5. We shouldn't make them go to the back of the line for citizenship.

Amazing! And only Ross Balano, fire alarm salesman extraordinaire, is smart enough to see through the smoke and mirrors!

Balano HAS to be a Northener.

An embarrassment to conservatives, mammals, and vertebrates in general.

President Bush, Dick Cheney, and their administration have repeatedly violated the law over the last eight years. You really want to start enforcing the law? How about we start by investigating the secret energy meetings with energy execs? Or illegally spying on Americans? Or secret, illegal torture prisons? Or lying to drag us into a war in the Middle East? Or illegally outing a CIA operative who worked on tracking WMD?

And now you want to pretend we are a nation of laws? Give me a freakin' break.

You are more of an embarrassment of the American Citizens. If these so called businesses that you talk about that needs these Illegals to work or this Nation will go under is not at all true. If these businesses don't want to support the American people then they don't really deserve to be in business. Punish the Businesses that hire Illegals for cheap labor and put the American People back to work. I heard months ago that if they (the Illegals) could not work in the field then produce would almost double, well they are still working in the fields and produce has already doubled in price. If these people either from Canada or Mexico or some where in Central America can break the Law, then why can't I. The only thing that we are doing by allowing these people to break our laws is, that before long everyone will be breaking the Law, is that what you want. Not me I support anyone that wants to come to the US legally to be able to come and enter into our Society, but to do it Illegally is just plain wrong no matter what spin you put on it.

Think "Balano" is Native American? Did your parents or grandparents come here first and become citizens later? Or did they apply from your country of origin?

You are seriously ignorant, Ross. What do you think would happen to this economy if every immigrant left tomorrow? Do you ever think about the consequences of what you propose? Can you honestly look anyone in the eye and say that all illegal immigrants should leave at once?

Oh - and about this:

"Democrat presidential nominee Barack Obama"

Enough with the cutesy Tom Delay language trick where you refuse to recognize that it's called the Democratic Party. I know why Delay does it.....do you? I suspect not. You're a blind follower and a faux patriot, without an original idea in your head...no doubt a true "Ditto head."

Lastly, what is John McCain's stance on immigration? I don't hear him running about proclaiming that all the immigrants need to go. He didn't get to be the Senator from Arizona without long ties to the Hispanic community. Seems like you might need to stick Ron Paul or Bob Barr in November. Or perhaps David Duke is more your speed.....

It is so embarrassing the KC Star gives you a platform.

La Raza is a insurgent dangerous organization that would swamp America with a continuous influx of poor from third world countries. The race as it's called has seditious ideas to return the Southwest to Mexico. Fanatical as this might seem this is their philosophy they preach, amongst the Hispanic people's.

Obviously not every Hispanic believes in this ideology as those who entered this country legally have mostly assimilated into our society. They also need to know this effects them as well as other legal nationalities, because they will also feel the lose of jobs and their families future. Not to many politicians have come to the rescue of the hard hit citizens, because they are out to be re-elected.

That means appeasing big business donors for their campaign contributions.
Understand that this is a war, that must be won! Otherwise illegal immigration will bring America to a necrology stand-still of overpopulation. Does the American people need to escalate the 315 million plus population, the census estimates we have now? To a new total of 435 million because the new president wants to add a new blanket AMNESTY?

Right now the dire consequences of overpopulation is irrefutable, by just looking at the congestion in our cities, along with the ever growing pollution. We cannot sustain supporting even larger numbers of people, or ignoring the predatory businesses that callously assume that legal citizens will support their cheap labor?

Uncensored facts at NUMBERUSA